By knowing His Son.
dear tec... and peace to you!
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
Even God can't escape the Matrix
by gubberningbody 43 Replies latest jw friends
-
AGuest
-
gubberningbody
RI, I think you're confusing faith with knowledge. Sure if you have the mind of the "Road Runner", you can run through painted tunnels on rock walls, but not if you're at least as intelligent as Wile E. Coyote.
BEEP, BEEP!
tec, Jesus wasn't answering this question. What he was saying is "If you want to know God, don't look any further than the closest morally upright person you can see." He wasn't saying anything beyond this.
Aguest, it must be a world of rainbows and unicorns where you live.
BTS...
You are right to note that there is no need for the things in any domain to be infinite.
It is true that POSSIBLE knowledge can be finite.
It is also true that by redefining omniscience as "knowing all things which are knowable" one can thereby affirm the "omniscience" of God.
However, the possible true-ness of such "omniscience" doesn't endow this "omniscience" with the knowledge of knowing whether one happens to be in a Matrix within a Matrix or not.
This knowledge falls into the category of things which are "too deep for God". (and us too)
In order to demonstrate that God's omniscience includes his knowing that he/she/it is the Alpha and the Omega (and not just another being in a Matrix) one would have to be able to explain how this knowledge falls within the realm of such possible knowledge. If this is consequently "possible" knowledge, then how is this "possible" knowledge possible for God and not possible for us?
-
notverylikely
I love hypothetical discussions about silent invisible people.
-
Deputy Dog
God made the "Matrix".
-
tec
tec, Jesus wasn't answering this question. What he was saying is "If you want to know God, don't look any further than the closest morally upright person you can see." He wasn't saying anything beyond this.
Um... he never said anything like that, GB, nor even implied it. He said this:
"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, then you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and you have seen Him."
Tammy
-
gubberningbody
tec/Tam... You haven't dealt with the question posed by this thread.
-
tec
Sorry, GB. But it doesn't make any sense to me. Thats why I didn't address it. Maybe He's just not worried about proving to himself that he exists :)
Tammy
-
ele_lux
"How can you know what an eternal, omniscient being knows?"
You read the Bible. (sarcasm)
-
Leprechaun
I'm trying to free your mind, But I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it.
You are a slave, Like everyone else you were born into bondage. Into a prison,
that you cannot taste or see or touch a prison for your mind, most people know it as religion.
I didn't say it would be easy, I just said it would be the truth.
You take the blue pill, the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe.
You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Remember: all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.
Religion is a system, That system can be an enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see?
The very minds of the people we are trying to save. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on their Religion that they will fight to protect it, even in the face of overwhelming facts.
-
gubberningbody
tec/Tam...
The question isn't about God knowing about his own existence.
Any conscious "person" at least knows they exist.
What is not known, or is even knowable by ANY conscious "person", is the nature of his/her/its own existence.
For example, the old quote attributed to the chinese philosopher Zhuangzi...
"Once upon a time, I, Chuang Chou, dreamt I was a butterfly, fluttering hither and thither, to all intents and purposes a butterfly. I was conscious only of my happiness as a butterfly, unaware that I was Chou. Soon I awaked, and there I was, veritably myself again. Now I do not know whether I was then a man dreaming I was a butterfly, or whether I am now a butterfly, dreaming I am a man. Between a man and a butterfly there is necessarily a distinction. The transition is called the transformation of material things."
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Zhuangzi
This illustrates the problem that the movie The Matrix wrestles with.
This is why any self-proclaimed God can NEVER know whether or not there may be still OTHER Gods higher than him or herself.
So when Isaiah ostensibly quotes Jehovah at Isaiah 44:6-7:
“This is what Jehovah has said, the King of Israel and the Repurchaser of him, Jehovah of armies, ‘I am the first and I am the last, and besides me there is no God. And who is there like me? Let him call out, that he may tell it and present it to me..."
Jehovah is just making an assertion to the ones in his own Matrix. He can never know unless someone were to "... call out, that he may tell it and present it to [him]. "
So one can speak of Jehovah's omniscience as "knowing all things which are knowable", but the knowledge of "knowing" whether one is or is not living in a Matrix-like situation is something which is simply not "knowable". This is why Jehovah can never really know that he is the "first and the last".
So Jehovah's doing a Taxi-Driver to humanity.