Even God can't escape the Matrix

by gubberningbody 43 Replies latest jw friends

  • gubberningbody
    gubberningbody

    bohm, Your "Can God..." question is the point. He can't.

    Existence may be difficult to prove with regard to others, but not to the self. You know you exist for reasons which have already been gone over ad nauseum.

    IF God exists, then he/she/it can't know anything other than that it exists.

    With regard to the oracle halting problem, I'm glad you brought that up, because I'd not heard of it. I'd heard of the Turing test, and the halting problem, but I'd not read very much beyond what one might read in passing in an article in a magazine.

    With regard to "sets of all sets", you're dealing with a language, not a real conundrum. That's a zen koan, not a reality.

    With regard to such a complete formal system, I thought Goedel's theorem disproved that possibility.

    With regard to the Higgs boson, I'm not sure and I'm not sure why I should care.

  • bohm
    bohm

    GB: Sorry, it was late and my reply was not very transparent. First off, the only reason i introduced this question: "Can God (as in creator of our universe) know he is not controlled by a greater God?" was to avoid "the matrix" since, well, its another rather fuzzy concept :-). I believe we are both asking the same question, and the answer should be pretty clear: he cant.

    As for the rest of my post, i think making "formal" claims on God, and treating him like some "formal" philosophical object is a bad idea; the idea that God could somehow be summoned out of a sufficiently complicated discussion on first causes, eternity/infinite, etc. does not appeal to me at all. Thats why i brought up the Higgs bosone - it make very little sence to proove the neccesary existence of the Higgs bosone (A much more humble project than prooving the existence of God!).

    As for the other examples, well, i wanted to hint at the difficulty of a "formal" discussion on God. Halting oracles and sets of all sets seem to make a lot of sence; they are easy to think of and define in ordinary language. but that does not mean the begin to exist in a puff of logic. In fact, it turns out a much more carefull analysis of halting oracles and "sets of all sets" reveal they have very subtle difficulties which mean they cant exist; at least not the way we think of them.

    http://scientopia.org/blogs/goodmath/2010/09/12/the-halting-problem/

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_paradox

    As an example for why this is important, a few years back there was a group of french mathematicians who was working on a special type of mathematical object, and was prooving one interesting theorem after another. The only problem was that a few years later, it was proven that the type of object they was working with could not be constructed; they had been prooving one really important theorem after another which was only valid for the members of the empty set!

    So is "the set of all Gods" empty?

  • gubberningbody
    gubberningbody

    bohm,

    I'm not doing anything at all complicated with regard to any possible God.

    My point is quite simple and I'm certain that what's uncomfortable with this point.

  • Fernando
    Fernando

    Hey AGuest!

    I really enjoyed your posts on the Matrix as I have just awoken to the movie and its theme:

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/224663/1/Is-it-more-difficult-to-help-our-loved-ones-escape-the-MATRIX-if-we-still-share-common-elements-of-BLINDNESS-with-the-Watchtower#4326122

    Hope you are well and post again soon.

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