Even God can't escape the Matrix

by gubberningbody 43 Replies latest jw friends

  • gubberningbody
    gubberningbody

    No Sd, you misunderstand me.

    I use the word existence, as "having boundary conditions". For a "person" to exist, one would have to have boundary conditions, otherwise it would be meaningless to use the term "person" as we commonly use this word.

    This does not mean that all things which "exist" are known to other things which "exist". (All that "exists" is not necessarily "existing" within the same domain.)

    This is the problem that all "persons" who "exist" contend with.

    To clarify the logical sequence what I'm proposing is:

    1. Postulate: Existence is defined as "having boundary conditions".

    2. Axiom: Having boundary conditions means being able to know only those things up to but not exceeding ones own boundary conditions. (This is really just an elaboration of #1, but I'm connecting the dots with regard to "boundary conditions", making explicit that having boundary conditions necessarily includes a "bounds" on possible knowledge. (Informational "Thermodynamics" applies in analogous fashion here. Information comes from "somewhere" and no one can "create" more information than is available in any domain. For the same reason we know perpetual motion machines are impossible.)

    3. Postulate: The Matrix is really nothing more than two concentric boundary conditions, in the movie, some "wake" others "sleep", while others do both.

    4. Postulate: "God" exists.

    5. Conclusion: "God" has boundary conditions because of #1.

    QED: God can't escape the Matrix

    (Actually, now that I think about it, it would be more precise to say that God CAN'T know whether or not he is bound up within a Matrix-like domain. In the movie, people had a choice, or were presented with a choice. The mirror image of this knowledge deficit in us is that we can't "know" anything other than that we "exist" and this is the same problem God faces. He can know that he "exists", however that is all he can know with a capital "K".

    For these reasons we OUGHT to realize that if WE can imagine and "know" of the possibility that we may in point of fact be existing within a "Matrix", then surely God would "know" these things as well.

    We look at the world and we "know" that what we see is not all that there is, and yet we would expect that God wouldn't know these things about his own class of existence?

    I don't and can't trouble my cat with my own disquieting thoughts because my cat has her own boundary conditions. God is likely in the same position. He can never communicate all that there is in his "heart" with anyone who is not at least a peer.

    I would expect that God would need search for God.

    Now that I think further on this, I would submit that if God exists, then just like I can only imagine I "know" what my cat thinks about me, so too God can only imagine he "knows" what I think about him.

  • gubberningbody
  • gubberningbody
  • gubberningbody
  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    1. Postulate: Existence is defined as "having boundary conditions".

    You will have to define your terms better. There is more than one definition for existence.

    Additionally, you will have to justify your postulate.

    Also, I do not appreciate being referred to with initials that stand for who knows what.

    BTS

  • El Nunya
    El Nunya

    Shelby said: I am not nice. To say that I am would be another lie. I can BE nice... but I honestly have to work at it.

    Hahaha girl! This definitely struck a cord with me, because it's soooo true! Draggin' this flesh around is, well, a drag! I can't tell you the times I HAVE to remind myself to BE nice.

    BTW, it's been a long time since we've had any sort of interaction. Most of it was on H2O. Seems you've made a place for yourself here and captured the hearts of a large segment of the board. Persistence does pay off!

    EN

    PS. You have a PM

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Dear El Nun... you gots a PM, too! Peace to you!

    A slave of Christ,

    SA, The Persistent!

  • gubberningbody
    gubberningbody

    BTS a postulate is self-contained. (I don't know why I used SD. I think someone has those initials. I never pay attention to who I'm talking to, just what it is that's being said. Identity of person seems like a trivial detail until they really get my ADD attention.)

    I'm defining my terms through this usage.

    "In traditional logic, an axiom or postulate is a proposition that is not proved or demonstrated but considered to be either self-evident, or subject to necessary decision. Therefore, its truth is taken for granted, and serves as a starting point for deducing and inferring other (theory dependent) truths." - from Wikipedia

    I would submit that it is self-evident that to exist, to have the property of existence, one would have need of boundary conditions.

    For example, it is axiomatic and can be readily and irrefutably postulated that something that exists either exists, or it doesn't. A "1" is not a "0".

    The basis for all reasoning comes down to A=A. 1 is not 0.

    "In logic, the law of identity states that an object is the same as itself: AA"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_identity

    If something exists, then it is also self evident that it has "edges" or "limits" insofar as there must be at least one "thing" which is NOT that something.

    This so, then if God "exists", he/she/it has limits.

    These limits include the limitation on knowledge of the true nature of self.

    All any "person" can truly know is that he/she/it exists.

    In this regard, all "persons" whether these be God, gods, or humans are completely equal.

    True, people can play nonsense games with language, but just because a sentence has a subject, noun and predicate doesn't mean this sentence has any truth value.

  • bohm
    bohm

    How about this: "Can God (as in creator of our universe) know he is not controlled by a greater God?"

    Existence is a tricky thing to proove. Think about these things which seem to make a lot of sence to claim exist:

    • a halting oracle
    • a complete formal system which can express basic arithmetics.
    • the set of all sets.

    Claiming God exist as some formal entry require a damn good argument and some specification of what God is. I would hate to go into that. And before we have constructed God, or proven he exist, we cant really proove or disprove he is in a matrix.

  • bohm
    bohm

    At the end of the day we are in logical cowboyland. I dont think there is any more value in this project than there (currently) is in formally proove the Higgs bosone exist.

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