by leavingwt 237 Replies latest jw friends
Perhaps, PSacramento, the incentive of some religous people is the expectation of eternal reward for their good deeds? In that regard, don't you think the secular givers, who have no expectation of payback, are the real altruists?
Does it matter, really? Should we really be dissecting the motives of people doing good deeds, or just be happy those deeds are being done?
Tammy
Does it matter, really? Should we really be dissecting the motives of people doing good deeds, or just be happy those deeds are being done?
Tammy
I am starting to admire Tammy for correct, simple logic here.
BTW - there is probably as much or more incentive for "doing good" as tax deductions than there is for some religious merit - and that applies to both religious and non-religious.
Does it matter, really? Should we really be dissecting the motives of people doing good deeds, or just be happy those deeds are being done?
Well, we can argue whether we should be the truth be it told, God does.
God knows why people do good or why they do bad, hence he is the only one that can judge us.
I really don't care WHY people do good deeds, though I do care why they do bad ones, but perhaps we should give more attention as to the intent behind why people do what they do, bad and good.
Maybe it will open our eyes and not allows us to be so easily be mislead by "man", especially "man" in the position of Power.
God knows why people do good or why they do bad, hence he is the only one that can judge us.
Back on topic, sort of, how do you know this, PSacramento?
Does it matter, really? Should we really be dissecting the motives of people doing good deeds, or just be happy those deeds are being done?
Yes, it matters. I cite for example major donors to universities and colleges. While clear that they are contributing to a worthy cause, education, it is also clear that by virtue of their generosity they are personally afforded special consideration when decisions are made on core curriculum and faculty. What this does is give power to rich men to shape society in their own images. That is but one example. Altruism of the rich and powerful is not without hidden agendas.
I thought we were talking about pissed-off atheists?
In the context of this discussion the motives of those doing good deeds absolutely matters. Is it done with an eye to the carrot or the stick, or is it done with completely free will?
As for angry Atheists, again, if we respond to being told we are going "through a phase", or well now that all of God's laws have shaped society you can take him out of the equation, or we are only Atheists because we have not been "touched" by God, or any of a dozen other equally condescending comments, we are labeled as angry. This doesn't even address the legislation or evangelizing that we are supposed to ignore.
That Arthur Brooks book is flawed and skewed. I can't believe people are still referencing it. Do you really think the people who put 5 bucks in the contribution box at the back of the hall or give to the Catholic church building fund are being more, or even equally, charitable than someone who takes meals to the elderly or volunteers at the local shelter? Gives to Veterans groups or breast cancer research?
You know, unless it comes with a condition attached, then I doubt the person on the receiving end of the good deed cares one whit for the motivation behind it.
And perhaps I was mistaken, but I don't believe we were talking about a dark hidden agenda behind a good deed - which kind of negates the good behind the deed. We were just talking about whether one person's motive for a good deed (possible hope of heaven) was as good or unselfish as some other person's motives. Discussing this just makes me think of another thread where someone's motives for doing a good deed got torn to shreds, by the people saying those motives weren't good enough - or worse, that those motives were self righteous - when the thought never even occurred to the person.
I'm sorry, but that is what I see when people start talking about examining (judging) the worthiness of a person's motive.
Thank you, James, for your earlier comment.
Tammy
I`m sorry I`m" old" I haven`t read all the posts on this topic,just a random selection of a few.So am I missing something here? The argument for God is based on second hand information at best from imperfect human beings who we all know have hidden agendas of their own.Nowhere can we verify God has communicated with humans save for those humans who are pushing their own agendas.Now this is true whether we are talking about the christian religion,judaism,Islam,or the multitude of other religions that exist in the world.GOD has not spoken up for any of these,it`s deadly silent after all these centuries.The claim that God gave christians the ten commandments and the rest of the bible ,rests on imperfect humans,the claim mahhomed received his instructions and the koran , came from an imperfect human,and so on and so on with all other religions. To say we need faith in a God is just a sheer copout for not being able to prove the unprovable.
smiddy
Back on topic, sort of, how do you know this, PSacramento?
Which part? that God judges or that God judges intent?
Well, taking the bible as guide, it says that God judges ( and sees) what is in the heart of man (Paraphrasing), but NOT taking the bible as a guide, then well, I guess we don't know if God will judge anyoen at all, or if there will be ANY judgment of ANY kind ( outside of personal revelation of course).
Tammy, the only reason that the charity issue came up, is because a Christian was making a statement on the difference between the Atheist and the Believer when it comes to giving. The discussion was not focused on the outcome of charity, but on the motivation of the giver. If a child only shares his toys when an adult is supervising him to, is he really sharing? When giving tothe church, isn't a churchgoer actually giving to benefit himself and his circle?
All in all, another example of the feeling of superiority by believers over non believers. And another good example of why some Atheists might be angry.
