If God truly loved humans...why not reveal himself ? So that they could make an informed decision ? (page 7)

designs

Oh the old pencil and the paper excuse.........

bohm

tyu:

bohm: You are right that nothing can be proven with Muhammed. It is different with Christianity. Where are the bones of Jesus?

Same question with muhammed.

Those 12 apostles, many of them mere fishermen couldn't have possibly pulled off the greatest scam of all time, a scam lasting 2,000 years.

Who say it is a scam? I think they was honest. I can only say that muslims pulled of an equal "scam" in 3/4 of the time...

Would those same men and thousands (or more) after them all go through inhuman torture and death for a lie? For what reward?

life in heaven, fear of hell, sincere belief they are right. just like with islam...

Wouldn't the cruel persecutions of the Romans have put a stop to that nonsense?

why? how?

How could Christianity have flourished instead?

applies equally to islam. Muhammed was persecuted in his days.

Unlike Muhammed's "miracles", there are many miracles of Jesus that can even be seen today.

And so is there of islam, just google!: http://www.discoveringislam.org/islamic_miracles_today.htm

Ofcourse the islamic miracles are not widely accepted in the scientific community. But are the christian? (Google a C14 dating and the schroud of turing, for instance). At the end of the day, we can throw pseudo-science around all day both in support of islam and christianity. try to find just one christian miracle with some hard science to back it up.

With all due respect, I really don't think you would believe even if God wrote on the moon with big letters.

Are you a mindreader? By such a statement, you dehumanize me and turn me into someone not worthy of your time. My oppinion does not matter because i am not interlectually honest. Wasnt there some guy who said: "Dont judge least you be judged yourself"...

OBVES

We cannot question God in what He does. What He does is peferct and we must see the proper answers to that.

The Bible is a very good way God manifested Himself if it is properly understood.

designs

Nice answer OBVES, that should keep a few from questioning anything.....

PSacramento

If God revealed himself to to all, there would be a lot of underwear needing changing.

That's probably why he doesn't, I know I wouldn't.

;)

designs

PSacremento-

If God is good it should be a positive experience, if he is Thor maybe not so much......

PSacramento

Well, if the fundamentalists are right...

tec

If God is good it should be a positive experience,

Perhaps not for those who want nothing to do with Him. Nor for those who don't want to face the truth about themselves and/or the darkness that they hide even FROM themselves.

I think there are plenty of people who do not want God to be real - and perhaps plenty of extremists (of any religion) who do not want there to be any version of God other than their own.

Tammy

designs

Tammy-

I guess that gets back to the fundamentals of what 'God' is. A Being, a Force, Nature. The Universalists see any encounter as positive for everyone or they see the encounter as occuring all the time, in other words reality with the universe as it occurs. Religions that place some Judgement on 'God' naturally see a good and bad outcome with a Being.

The cosmos the way it is or Thor

The_Present_Truth

The Present Truth: It was tough to get through that link. The point is, God did not have to bring about redemption the way He did. He could have just said, "You're forgiven, I restore you to a state of grace" and it would have been done. He chose to do things this way. Why? I guess we'll only know completely after we die, but I see it that by looking at Creation, God is a God of order (look at the solar system, the human body, an atom, etc.). Adam and Eve were created and lived in peace and union with their creator. They broke that link, a divine-human link. God, being a God of order, decided that He would reverse what had happened. So He bridged the gap with a divine person, one who is truly man and truly God. Adam had life and by his sin brought death (spiritual death), so God sent Jesus Who by death brought life. It's not that God can't forgive or that He's some mean ogre to send His Son to die. God didn't have to create us or redeem us. It is all out of a motive of pure Love. Why did we need redemption? Well, if you throw a baseball through my window, I can forgive you, but my window is still broken. What is broken needs to be paid for or fixed. Jesus' death on the cross took care of that, as only a God-Man could do, the only one who could repair the relationship broken between God and man.

TYU ....

Ok ... I'll bite. Let's put things on an "Apples to Apples" type comparison using your illustration of the broken window. Let's say you and I have a great relationship, we're neighbors. One day, I decide to throw a baseball through your window - for whatever reason. Yep, your window is broke. It should definitely be fixed. You happen to own a glass company. You also happen to have a son and you consider yourself a very loving, forgiving person. Are you with me?

If you are a loving forgiving person, do you:

A) Shoot me dead in my yard the next time you see me, and mutter the words, "That'll teach him to break my window." and hope that the entire neighborhood sees you do that so that none of them will ever think about breaking one of your windows ever again?

B) Take "your son" out in the front yard and announce to the entire neighborhood with a megaphone that you're going to shoot him dead instead because "I" broke your window and damaged our relationship, and SOMEBODY HAS TO PAY! Then kill your son to make the point? Meanwhile, you leave the window broken so that the termites, rain, wind and snow come in and do further damage to your home and then decide to fix it years later once the majority of the house is in ruins when you could have just fixed that little panel of glass on day one and prevented any further damage at all?

C) Take the tape measure out of your kitchen drawer and measure the piece of glass and once you have the measurements, call down to the Glass shop "you own" and have them cut a piece of glass to fit the broken window and fix it on your own dime, choose to forgive me, not make your son or anyone else pay for what "I" did, not make a public scene over it, and then later call me to talk and find out if it was an accident or if I have a chip on my shoulder and there's something we need to iron out so that we can be friends again?

What is your answer?

The_Present_Truth

If God truly loved humans...why not reveal himself ? So that they could make an informed decision ?

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