Creationist Theme Park: "Ark Encounter" (page 4)

TD

All scientific realities aside, it does look like it would be a fun project to work on.

tec

So you're saying that in 4500 years ago we had a grand total of 14 beetles on the planet, and since then they have evolved into everything including Ladybugs, scarabs, rhino beetles, dung beetles, June Bugs and everything HERE:

No, I am not saying that, and if you read my post you would see this. I am not a fundamentalist, and I see no reason why the chronology of the bible has to imply that this flood had to occur 4 to 5 thousand years ago. Just so you all know where I'm coming from (and I assume a few of you do, from previous conversationists) I am not a young earth creationist by any means.

But a common thing to poke fun of is that the ark had to be some interdimensional whatever ship to hold all the millions of species/types, etc. But if at some point in the past, an ark was created to hold some of the different kinds, then those kinds could have evolved to produce all the millions of species that we have today. I mean, that's a fact, right? Evolution of the species and all.

Tammy

Lore

But... how does the bible date the flood to four thousand years ago? I think that's an assumption people get from whatever, but that doesn't mean its true.

You have clearly givin this subject LOADS of thought and research.

The Bible has a big huge boring list of Noahs decendants.

2 years after the flood Noahs son Sham had a child name Arthropod (or something like that)
35 years later Athropod had a son named Shoopdawoop
When Shoopdawoop was 30 he had a son named Uber
34 years later Uber had a kid named Peg Leg

And the list goes on and on until it gets to gets to Abraham. Basically if you add all this up there's a grand total of 350ish years between the flood and Abrahams birth.

According to both Acts and Genesis, Abraham was 75 when god promised him something vague.
Then Paul said that it was 430 years after this promise that the nation of Israel left Egypt.

So right there we can figure out that it was about 855 years between the flood and the exodus.

According to Paul in his letter to the Galatians, 480 years after the israelites left egypt, solomon started building the temple.

And since this, the building of the temple, is the first REAL event we have a date on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon's_Temple
based on actual history, solomon started building the temple around 900BC

This all means, that the flood uccured 1335 years before the founding of the Temple in 900BC. THUS it uccured in 2235 BC (Which is 4246 years ago for those of you who aren't good with the CE/BCE switch.)

And THAT my friends in a nutshell, is the assumption people get from whatever.

Lore

TD

Problem is Tammy, killing a species down to a single breeding pair limits the depth of the gene pool. Zero diversity within a species = No speciation

tec

TD - two or seven pairs actually, but I get what you're saying. However, animals adapt also to their environment/dangers as the needs arise, right? Some animals can change sex as the need arises.

Tammy

sir82

Ahem...allow me to beat Tammy to the punch:

I have the trump card:

God did it!

And its corollary - Scientists don't know everything, therefore they don't know anything.

That beats all yer scientific mumbo-jumbo about really hard topics like "gene pools" and "diversity" and stuff like that.

jaguarbass

Thank you Lore for doing the math. I have saved that to reflect upon.

TD

I was thinking that beetles are probably unclean

Animals do adapt to their environment as the need arises, but it's the diversity within the gene pool that facilitates that adaptation. Adaptation needs to happen fairly rapidly as animals migrate to new locales and face new climates and other selective pressures.

A recurring example with insects is the introduction of new insecticides. A new insecticide kills most of them, but within the population as a whole, some will be resistant. This resistence doesn't occur spontaneously, it was already there. The variation within the gene pool that makes this possible is thought to occur much more slowly. (According to strict creationists, it doesn't occur at all, because no mutation could ever be beneficial)

bohm

TEC: The problem is that the creationist model is something like this:

<creation of universe to flood of noah> : Absolutely no evolution.

<flood of noah> : All species down to EXTREMELY small gene pools.

<flood of noah to historical time> : VERY VERY high rates of evolution (adaption) and diversifications to levels hundreds of times larger than what is known today. Notice that high rate change in gene pool and a very small gene pool is a recipe for a collapse: only a big gene pool can handle high mutation rates.

<historical times to today> : Normal mutation rate.

WHY does the mutation rate change all the time? Why is there no evidence of genetic bottlenecks?

btw. the size of the gene pool is not affected by a change in the enviroment. Nor does sex change in animals change the gene pool in a significant way.

Billy the Ex-Bethelite

I hope they have all 3500 species of mosquitos at the Ark Park.

I hope they have models of all the species of animals and birds that have gone extinct since the flood.

I hope they show how kangaroos and koalas and all those other funky critters got down to Australia.

And I hope they have an arsenic pool on-board the ark. Today, NASA announced the discovery of a microbe utilizing arsenic as a DNA backbone...

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Evolutionists: 1

Creationist Theme Park: "Ark Encounter"

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