Understanding Christ's Sacrifice (page 7)

CandleLight

Tammy,

Thank you for sharing. This too has been in my thoughts.

Much Love

CL

tec

Tec, you seem to be upholding that statement. Which of the disciples killed others? What is the difference between a disciple and an apostle

I'm not sure where you got that idea that I am saying a disciple of Christ killed others? I'm not sure about the difference between a disciple and an apostle, except perhaps that the apostles were the first... in the context of this discussion, I am referring to anyone who follows/followed Christ. One cannot claim that they follow Christ and then go ahead and do the opposite of what Christ taught them to do. They might think that they are following Him, but their actions show otherwise.

Tammy

tec

Candlelight and The Finger - thank you so much. Much love to you both in return.

Tammy

bobld

Maybe the Jews were right see He9:26

B

tec

Michelle, I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say? See, we agree on this:

Jesus had mercy on humanity who are unable to be "without blemish" according to the law because He loved us...

I understand that the Israelites would have understood a blood sacrifice/legal requirement. But I understand the desire to carry the wrongdoing of another person, out of love for them, knowing that they are unable, but wanting them to be free because of that love... and I understand making amends by doing what the other person should have done/should be doing. And what we should be doing is loving and showing mercy.

Also if the whole law hangs on the commandments of love, for that is the most important law, then it stands to reason - at least to me - that all sin stems from the lack of love and/or mercy. Tammy

brotherdan

Sab, you actually really DO get the gospels and don't sugar coat it. I like that. You really can't deny that Christianity does demand things from people. I know people say its not exclusive, but even though you don't agree with it, you are right in that it is very exclusive. There are specific things that it says you cannot practice to enter the kingdom.

Designs: Actually I don't see the gospels separating Jesus from Judaism at all. In fact, Paul reinforced the importance of the Jewish race. They were the chosen ones of God. He made a covenant that was to last for alll time. Contrary to what the WTS says, they were not fully rejected after Christs death. Have you read much Bart Ehrtman? You have a lot of the same opinions about Christianity that he does. He has some facinating points, not all of which I agree with, but they are interesting.

Tammy, what a beautiful statement! That's one of the best ways that I have heard the sacrifice of Jesus explained!

tec

Dan, thank you. It was such a beautiful understanding to receive! I hoped if I shared it while it was so clear and strong in my mind and my heart, that I could communicate it clearly as well - and communication can often be harder than the understanding.

Tammy

designs

cameo-d Look at the verses listed where Jesus speaks to the Pharisees for starters.

Michelle- see my comment regarding Jews who believe in a literal Messiah.

PS- see my comments over many threads on the range of Jewish beliefs covering their Age of Enlightenment up to modern times.

Tammy- The Christians were acting on the inflamatory statements made against the Jews in the Gospels, remember the Big Lie 'His blood be upon us'. What happens in modern believers of Jesus is they want to sperate themselves from the history of Christianity, which is understandable, but don't turn around then and slight Witnesses who say the same thing in defense- 'but he was not a true Witness if he did those things'. What you and others have done is cherry pick through the NT and select the 'Nice stuff', the Love quotes and built a faith around it. Fair enough, that's how progress is made. Just be honest enough to admit that history tells us how people were interpreting what they read in the NT based on the Principle Jesus lays down which is- 'worship me, I alone am the way to eternal life, and if you don't you will receive eternal damnation'. His Followers took it upon themselves to 'push' people into deciding and if they refused they were killed by the millions.

If you want to be a Christian, Muslim, JW, Catholic, Evangelical, Hindu, LDS what have you then you own the Record of that group as well. Then you can vow to make changes if you see something wrong or get out which many of us have done.

AGuest

Jesus tells his own people that he will send them to burn in Hell for all Eternity

Seriously, dear designs (peace to you!)... you're bringing that up, again? After I showed you... in great detail... how your interpretation is entirely inaccurate, including verses that "prove" it? You are doing nothing more than resorting to the tactics you learned while in the WTBTS and that is to "twist" something to support your position. But in case you forgot, although he has the AUTHORITY to case those who are condemned to everlasting destruction (and not eternal burning or punishment), my Lord never takes it upon himself to exercise such authority. That's why he IS the "worthy" Lamb, dear one.

I set it all out for you once before and I thought you would at least condescend to read the verses, seeing as your position is based on what others have said "the Bible" says... although it does not. Why would you believe such folks after knowing such teaching is a blatant lie?

Let's go for another- 'Broad and spacious is the road leading to death and many are finding it, few find the road to life', well so much for the kind "I'll help everyone' kumbaya Jesus many have tried to make him out to be.

Christ IS the Way (i.e., road) to Life, dear one. And he extends himself to ALL. All don't FIND him, however, because... well, many, like you... aren't LOOKING for him. Sure, they're looking for "God." And looking to see if they can see how to have special "powers" (given to those who recieve holy spirit). And looking to see if they can figure out exactly "when" the "end" will come. And whether the Pope really is the vicar of Christ. And whether the GB really ARE the "faithful and discreet slave." And whether those who profess to be "anointed" really ARE anointed. And whether the garden of Eden was real or an allegorical situation. Or whether there was an ark... built by Noah OR conscribed by Moses. And whether staffs can really turn into snakes... and bushes can burn... and seas can part... and asses can talk. And whether there was a flood. And whether man evolved from apes. They are looking with regard to ALL of THESE things... and more. But they're not looking for him.

Followup in Revelation where the vast majority of human civilization is slaughtered by Jesus and his Army and sent to the Lake of Fire. This is not a nice guy.

What Revelation are YOU reading, dear one? Oh, wait... that's right: The "Revelation: It's Grand Climax At Hand" book, obviously. Seriously... aren't you ready to move on past that lying melarkey YET? Shouldn't you be?

Judaism in contrast was teaching a form of Universal Salvation at the time of Jesus of Nazareth.

I have to second dear PSacto's question, here. Salvation from what... for what... and by what means?

You could stop by your local Synagogue on any Sabbath and hear the message of universal hope.

Not in Brooklyn, NY, you can't. The [Hassidic] Jews there won't even walk on the same sidewalk as me. Literally. Experienced it, myself. Literally.

You were misled... and are greatly bitter. Understandable. Yet, rather than moving FORWARD, dear one... you went backward. Truly. Both in your faith... and your manifestation of it. And neither are very pretty.

Again, peace to you. Seriously. Because that really sounds like what you need.

A slave of Christ,

SA

P.S. Dear tec was only quoting, dear cameo-d (peace to you!).

AGuest

I'm not sure about the difference between a disciple and an apostle

A disciple is one who follows, so as to be trained by, another, dear tec (the greatest of love and peace to you!). He/she is not necessarily chosen (but may be) and so usually follows out of their own choosing. An apostle is one who is personally chosen and sent by one to certain others. He is more than just an ambassador (and ambassador's message is usually general and represents a number of issues and interests of the one(s) represented, where the apostle's message is more specific and represents a specific message, issue, and interest).

While apostles are always disciples, disciples are not necessarily apostles.

I hope this helps, dear one!

Your servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,

SA

Understanding Christ's Sacrifice

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