How do you know if you're going to heaven?

by Christiangal 88 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Faithful2Jah
    Faithful2Jah

    6/9 said >>>>>>>>> The only thing in this discussion that I'm ignorant of, is how anyone can think faith is a virtue.

    To have faith in God requires a willingness to believe in one greater than yourself. That shows humility. Humility is a virtue, is it not?

    I believe that those who are truly willing to believe, God gives reasons to believe. I believe to all who are not truly willing to believe, God gives reasons not to believe. Of those the Bible says, "They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness." (2 Thes. 2:10-12)

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek
    Yes for the most part, Derek is mentally lazy and insincere.

    Thomas, rather than answering any arguments I make, you simply quote an irrelevant verse from your holy book. And now you're calling me "mentally lazy". If you were intelligent enough to absorb anything I write here, you'd probably realise the irony. But apparently you're not so you just blindly lash out with irrelevant insults. Ignore my arguments if you wish, but if you insult me and my family like that again, the gloves are coming off!

    --
    "The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion." - Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason, 1794.

  • JanH
    JanH

    F2J,

    To have faith in God requires a willingness to believe in one greater than yourself. That shows humility. Humility is a virtue, is it not?

    Actually, to insist that you are right and others are wrong, when all the evidence is against you, is the very opposite of humility.

    "Faith" is in many ways the last line of defence for the true believer. These defence lines goes through many stages from the cocksure assertions that their religious beliefs is proven beyond doubt, so common among JWs and other fundamentalists, all the way down to saying "we gotta have faith."

    Rhetorically, a reference to "faith" finds resonnance with most believers. But what, exactly, is "faith"? In Greek, and indeed many modern languages, there is no distinction between "belief" and "faith." English has retained this archaic word for belief, and today it is reserved for religious beliefs. So, in effect saying that "you need faith" is equivalent to saying "you need to believe." This begs the question: why, pray tell, do people need belief? What makes faith a credible or desirable quality? Does this mean that anything and everything should be believed, or is this limited to some ideas only?

    I think most people, even the most ardently religious, will agree that there are forms of belief that are not desirable. Christians will say that faith in Allah or Vishnu, or ancient deities like Zevs, Odin or Ba'al, is not only undesirable but outright evil. And in the same way, believers in Allah may argue that faith in the Christian God is highly undesirable. And most people today will agree that belief in the tenets of certain totalitarian philosophies, like Nazism, is extremely undesirable and evil.

    So what makes faith in God, or even the particular God of Christuianity, a positive quality? By answering "you need to have faith" or along such lines, you simply assert that the belief is correct, without any supporting arguments whatsoever. You could just as well support belief in Ba'al, Nazism or invisible green unicorns, using the same slogan.

    Why does the word "faith" have such a good sound in the western hemisphere? Obviously, because through centuries of Christian propaganda, this word has been reverred as the highest of virtues.

    When Christianity was new, this new religion met with opposition and skepticism. Claiming that an executed criminal had been resurrected and was indeed Divine, was obviously beyond what many would accept. While we should not exeggarate the skepitcal climate of the day, it is not a stretch to assume that many people asked the Christians for some evidence supporting this extraordinary claim. Christians had no such things. So, as part of their preaching, they argued that being skeptical, being a doubter, was inheritently sinfull, and that faith -- indeed, blind faith -- was the noblest of virtues.

    So, what happened was that a religion made gullability the highest of virtues. And this continues to this day. Only, this obvious fact is hidden behind the word "faith."

    One amazing example of how doubt was villified, we find in the story about Thomas the doubter. Apparently alone among the disciplies, Thomas proclaimed that he needed more than the claims of more or less hysterical believers to accept this extraordinary claim. He would, he proclaimed, believe if he received evidence. Would not any sane person have reacted in the same way? And indeed, in this story, Jesus accepts the challenge, and proves to Thomas's satisfaction that he is the resurrected Christ. Alas, here we find Jesus (John 20:29) ruining the whole story by making an outragously stupid conclusion: "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

    In other words, the Jesus of John blessed blind superstitious faith and repudiated sound skepticism.

    No doubt this literary product was created as an attempt to answer those who did not accept these supernatural claims, and especially to discourage any form of critical thinking among Christians.

    And indeed, this rejection of rational thinking has been a hallmark of Christianity ever since. Luckily, or we would certainly not have anything resembling civilization today, the stranglehold of faith over reason has been fought back and greatly reduced.

    Yet, we still hear people assert that "we must have faith."

    - Jan
    --
    The believer is happy. The doubter is wise.

  • Thomas Poole
    Thomas Poole

    6-9. Now this is what I am writing about, regarding you. Here are your typical thinking and response mentalities, true to your form:

    The Bible:

    that book of spiritual pus?
    Graceful speech:
    I'm beginning to wonder if there is such a thing.
    WELL, YOU DON'T ACCEPT IT OR RECOGNIZE IT WHEN IT IS THERE. YOU ATTACK IT LIKE AN VISCIOUS ANIMAL.

    A typical disconnected general rebellious complaint:

    I'll find it in a person like Hillary.
    A Christian:
    a superstitious idiot.
    About our Father in Heaven:
    It's funny to me that if there is a God, He/She/It probably has more respect for the unbeliever than the believer.
    A Christian as a gambler:
    At least we open doubters and unbelievers aren't suck-ups and spiritual gamblers.
    Attitude towards faith:
    The only thing in this discussion that I'm ignorant of, is how anyone can think faith is a virtue.
    Feeling sorrow for self:
    I should know, I used to, but then again, I was kept quite ignorant for many years.
    So, do you see what you have become? Do you see yourself as you would like to be? No, of course not. So, get out your rebellious funk and ask for help.
    Your mind is raging like a roaring train against everything that would guide you, help you, because of anger and distrust.
    So, get out of your funk and realize that your salvation is between YOU and GOD, NOT AN ORGANIZATION OR A DENOMINATION.
    Discover the Body Of Christ, and re-define the Christian vocabulary correctly.
    Yes, life has crapped on you and me both, but get out of your dumb funk, try to behave in a civilized manner, and reach out like many others have; and FIND CHRIST AS IS PROPER, using self-study, with prayer, and association with healthy people in some church someplace. I would suggest a Baptist church.
    Go read my post on the "PROCEDURE TO GET TO HEAVEN" and get yourself the book: The Bondage Breaker. It is there for many people on this forum, who are just as mess up as you.
    The thing about it here is you'll find plenty of people here to support your attitude. So, they are not really loving you, are they. It's just a solidarity of mutual dumbness.
    Do good! Do what is right! In great reality, Satan, right now,rules your thoughts because you are letting him, and he is laughing at you, dummy. The roaring lion has you in his gums, the bum. So, get our of your dumb funk.

    So stop, hit the road, trade in your tricycle, and do something to find and gain the abundant life that Christ said we would find through him.

    Love Thomas

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    lol

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    F2J, what Jan said.

    also,

    To have faith in God requires a willingness to believe in one greater than yourself.
    bullshit. There is that oh-so-witness attitude rearing its ugly head: "anyone who doesn't believe, just isn't sincere or humble enough to believe". Arrogant beyond belief my friend. As the meekest man on earth, believe me when I tell you that I am perfectly willing, even eager, to believe that there is one greater than myself.
  • Faithful2Jah
    Faithful2Jah

    Jan said >>>>>>>>>>> to insist that you are right and others are wrong, when all the evidence is against you, is the very opposite of humility.

    I can't disagree with that. I will, however, add that it is also the opposite of humility to insist that "all evidence is against" there being a Creator. For only a very proud person could refuse to acknowledge any and all evidence that now exists for the existence of God.

  • Faithful2Jah
    Faithful2Jah

    6/9 said >>>>>>>>>>> I am perfectly willing, even eager, to believe that there is one greater than myself.

    My advise to you then is to go to a big time college football game. Then look around you. You will see about 50,000 such people. Most of whom do not constantly utter profanity and blaspheme God the way you do.

  • drahcir yarrum
    drahcir yarrum

    Things for which there exists no tangible evidence of their existence or occurance:

    1. God
    2. The human soul
    3. A spirit realm known as heaven
    4. Satan
    5. Demons
    6. The resurection of Christ
    7. The Noahacian flood
    8. Christ coming back to visit visibly or invisibly
    9. Brainwave activity in Mike Tyson

    "Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life son." Dean Vernon Wormer, Faber College

  • plmkrzy
    plmkrzy

    [/quote]Actually, to insist that you are right and others are wrong, when all the evidence is against you, is the very opposite of humility.

    I you are insisting that you are right and others are wrong, like most everyone here does, no that is not humility. But if you have faith or a belief in something such as God and keep your faith in tact regardless of how stupid others accuse you of being and regardless of the mountains of proof they think they have to prove that There right and Your wrong, then that is humility. Just like in Eden, Eve had No humility and Adam was an Ass hole following only his own dick.

    JanH
    ." This begs the question: why, pray tell, do people need belief? What makes faith a credible or desirable quality?

    That is always up to each individual to decide for him or her self and until the day comes when God himself shows up and says Don't believe in me anymore or "See I told you so" there will always be an argument about it. It's in our nature and has been thoughout history and no person or group of people will ever change that. No matter how bad they may want to. Hitler tried and failed.

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