Hello Everyone...Just Joined Today (page 5)

MrFreeze

Look forward to reading more. You definitely seem to have a lot to offer.

mamalove

Welcome, looking forward to hearing more of your perspective!

wobble

Big Welcome Dario !

I enjoyed your first post, and I agree that we have a responsibility to make this place user friendly to those JW's who find their way here.

It was a difficult thing for me , after 58 yers in the religion, to come here, and some of what I read almost put me off, I am so glad that I continued to read and eventually to post.

I too look forward to your further contributions here.

Cold Steel

Atheism has a strong case and can be a perfectly healthy way to live ones life. I'd love to hear your thoughts on how atheism became so illuminated for you.

I don't agree. Although religion has its problems, atheism can't explain the existence of anything. If there is endless space with nothing in it, then atheism would appeal to me. Add one speck of matter and we beg the question from whence it came! But there's not one speck--the universe is filled with matter. As one ancient document one of my professors read me states: "Everything is a system in the midst of like systems." Thus, one atom exists among many. One planet exists among many and that becomes a solar system. Solar systems become galaxies and galaxies become universes. Go outside of our universe and I'll bet you dollars to donuts that there are other universes. Universes make up a cosmos and what do numerous cosmos make up?

Things, gods included, don't just pop into existence...atheists included!

As the prophets state, everything denotes there is a God. Atheists too often brush aside the incredible order and symmetry that exists in the cosmos. And having studied the amazing details in near death experiences, I have to come down on the side of religion. Maybe not JW, but something.

DarioKehl

Common apologetic argument, Cold Steel...

But this is the typical "God of the Gaps" routine and believe me, we evil atheists hear it alllll the tiiiiiime.

Everything denotes there is a God. ...incredible order and symmetry that exists in the cosmos.

Ok, explain how that denotes a "god." Just because things are orderly and symmetrical does not offer proof of your claim that an all-powerful "god" exists. By your logic, you have backed yourself into a corner. For if your "god" exists, who made Him? And don't default to the usual apologetic answer that "He has no beginning." Infinite regression is an invalid form of argument. I want you to PROVE to me... How do you know God exists? And for something to exist, by your very logic, it must have had a beginning. So where did God come from?

I can easily give you a scientific reason for "order" in the universe. It's called entropy. If you take liquid butane and put it inside a tank of water in a zero-gravity environment, guess what--the butane forms a PERFECT sphere. But how??? Doesn't that violate the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics???? Actually, no, not at all. Different substances have different factors for entropy (or, the tendency to be in a state of disorder) and it just so happens that the chemical properties of water cause it to "want" to be in a disordered state more than butane does. So what you see as an end product is water shoving something else into an apparently orderly fashion because water has a higher tendency to rest in a disordered state.

Evolution is the same way. You point to a creature so perfectly fit for its surroundings and credit an intelligent designer. But, you must not fail to ignore that 4 billion years of trial and error fine-tuned that organism such that it appears to be a miraculous design of purpose. I hate to pee on your pop tart, Cold Steel, but think of the advantages you have now WITHOUT a "jealous and angry God" above you!

NewChapter

Atheism has a strong case and can be a perfectly healthy way to live ones life. I'd love to hear your

thoughts on how atheism became so illuminated for you.

I STRONGLY agree with this statement. I NEVER thought I would be an atheist. And yet, the moment I admitted to myself I was an atheist, this life suddenly became a great deal more precious to me. I no longer had to 'edit' information to fit in with my beliefs, but I was able to look at the facts and make clear, unburdened conclusions. 98% of my guilt disappeared. My self esteem increased, in a good way. Every one else's life became more precious. I found myself a great deal more concerned for the conditions that fellow humans live in RIGHT NOW, during their precious life. I actually care more. I am calm. I am much healthier today than when I was religious. My anxiety is at a life-long low. I know longer have to dance around facts so much when facts disputed my beliefs.

On the other hand, I realize that some people still feel a spiritual need. And for them, I hope they find what they are looking for. I don't consider it an intelligence issue at all. I dislike when atheists act like religious people are not smart. But I also dislike when religious people assume that atheists don't have purpose and meaning. We should leave each other alone. It's good to discuss ideas, but judgment is another issue.

nancy drew

welcome

as you continue to move away from the org you will find yourself coming alive and breathing fresh air

StoneWall

Dariokehl said:

As far as "admitting it to myself," well... with that comes the difficulty of facing the fact that this life is all we have. It's kind of depressing at first and I was upset with myself for discovering this. NOW what??? I have nothing to hope for after this??? Yikes! The idea of never seeing dead loved ones was also very tough. But, something amazing happened...the anxiety and panic attacks that bothered me through the teens and 20s went away! I think the skeptic 9-year-old was clamoring to escape this cage he was in and the fairy-tale version of "happily ever after" in a peaceful new world never seemed real to me. This manifested itself in severe depression/anxiety. Why couldn't I buy in to this idea when so many intelligent adults around me believed it enough to bang on people's doors and try to convince them TOO??

The above paragraph struck a chord with me. I too suffered from severe anxiety/panic attacks years ago and only after I came to terms with the thought that the Watchtower Organization wasn't what they claimed to be (God's chosen representatives) did they cease.

All the time spent suffering from those panic/anxiety attacks,(some felt like they were going to turn into heart attacks with my chest beating so hard) evidently were triggered from an intense internal struggle because of me not wanting to admit fault with the organization. I was brought up in an atmosphere of where you didn't question the WatchTower. If you had an issue with something you just put it on a shelf in your mind, or to quote one brother"put it on the back-burner".

Very nice opening thread from you and I look forward to seeing more of them in the future.

Best wishes on your "Reasoning book" project.

Regards,

StoneWall

lifelong humanist

DarioKehl

Just read your introduction, body & conclusion. Now, all you need to do is work on your swift exit. Sounds like you know exactly what you're doing and how best to achieve it. I'm sure that you'll post your success story in the very near future for us all to enjoy.

Welcome, and I look forward to hearing from you again.

lifelong humanist

Billy the Ex-Bethelite

Welcome!

Just to be clear, I'm THE biggest trouble-maker on this forum and have a different soapbox for every thread. But fortunately for everyone, I'm busy with classes right now, so I can't hassle everyone as much as they deserve.

Hello Everyone...Just Joined Today

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