by Bendrr 91 Replies latest jw friends
I'm not TRYING to (tell) you anything. I'm only adding to the thread, a series of search results on kylishhlee's andthe isp number that is attached to the mails. Cryptic? hahaha geezus, was it that hard to see?
If man was supposedly created in gods image, then.....holy krap...we're all doomed.-sKallyWagger
Hi Dave,
No, I was no privy to any of the behind the scenes goings on with this Danni thing. I was skeptical, but kept an open mind about the whole thing. You made the request for no more discussion on the topic and it was dropped. Because I respected you, and your evenhandedness, I honored your request. Even after all that has transpired, my respect for you has not changed one iota.
It seems to me that you might have misunderstood the first paragraph in my first post on this thread. I, in no way, dispute your opinion of this Kylishhlee. I just remember reading a posted email that she (that is an assumption) is NOT a witness. So much bad behavior this discussion board is blamed on being a witness, or ex-witness, that I wanted to point it out.
At this point, I'm moving on. Older and, hopefully, wiser .
Andee
You can take a whore to culture, but you can't make her think-Dorothy Parker
Dave,
Thanks for your note. I remember stating to you once that I don't feel that I am the most popular poster here but that doesn’t mean that I am interested in making enemies, either. Like you, I am here only to further my own understanding of JW-related issues post my involvement with the Organization and maybe help a couple of others along the way.
I understand your interest in giving people the benefit of the doubt and so do I. In the matter of Danni it applies to Danni as well as the elders she talked to. Because they are part of a religious system that I don't care for doesn't meant they as individuals are unworthy of the same consideration. That was the only thing that drove me (and others) to respond as we did to Danni's account of her and Darryl's visit to the Hall. Why give her all the benefit of the doubt and the elders none, especially since they had no one speaking their side of the story? No matter how I feel about the WTS, the men, the people, are worthy of basic decency and common courtesy and they will ALWAYS get that from *me*.
You said: My life is not all about winning but more abut understanding. Sometimes that leads me into a situation where I came to a wrong conclusion. I can deal with that and it does not change who I am or lower my level of intelligence, it only proves that I do not know everything about everything. I am fine with that.
I can only agree wholeheartedly with that statement. I think the problem that rears its head (with decreasing frequency, thankfully) here on this forum is that some *do* feel that they have all the answers to every question and those who have a different viewpoint or hold a dissenting opinion are ridiculed, called names, etc.
If there is a common thread to be found in my posting since last March, it is my strong stand against such elitism, judgmentalism and intolerance. I've lived too long under that type of oppressive atmosphere to tolerate a second of it now. It's not about being right, winning arguments or being able to tell someone "I told you so." It's about being able, on a discussion board, to have the freedom to offer your opinion and have it accepted (if not agreed with) without having your intellect and heritage called into question or being called silly names by adults who should know better. Not all agree with what Danni said or did, and we were well within our rights to hold the views we held.
Making friends is fine—I could always use a couple more myself—but my experience as a Witness taught me that friendships based on anything other than mutual respect and unconditional love (despite serious differences of opinion) are worthless. Like anyone, I'd prefer to be well-liked and respected, but I've stepped on some toes since my arrival, particularly since "riz vs JanH." Some of what I've posted could have been said better—perhaps I even could have/should have been more deferential to JW.com's "better posters"—but at the same time others could have used a different approach as well. I have very few regrets in anything I've posted; I've been honest and that's more important to me than a host of cyber friends. The handfull of friends I have made are of the priceless variety and I'd rather have one or two of those than bagfuls of the other.
As far as Alan is concerned, my respect for the man has grown but he was out of line in what he said to me here. I understand he's your friend and imo his bias was showing. If he wants to make amends, that's up to him, but there was no call for him to say what he said. Still, I have no problem with him. He was wrong and I can live with that.
Peace,
tj
Hello, detective,
Very well said, as is your usual style. Thank you.
I remember quite well the reasonable advice you offered Danni and the needlessly harsh ridicule you suffered for not following the program like others did. Several were accused of being pedophiles and not doing anything because of their dissenting viewpoint. If there *is* a Danni or if Danni is kylishlee or Little Miss Muffett... none of it matters. Danni was/is only a symptom of a larger problem that some of the folks here have that I hope they have come to grips with, and that is:
Enjoyed your post.
Peace,
tj
To: Dective, all others, and expecially to joelbear who offered
counter arguements.
You jumped into the fray and you were frayed. Or should I say flayed.
M
7-006
Your honesty is refreshing.
Question: How do you know that the apparent fake is a JW?
M
Dave, thanks for the info and for putting it all in my thread.
I'd appreciate it if a few posters would settle down a little. I started this thread hoping Dave and others in the know would explain things and in the hopes of some good analysis of the whole saga.
So if I could steer it back to the analysis angle, maybe you'll see what I'm trying to do.
First of all, I do admit that I bought the whole thing for a while.
With that out of the way, how can this experience benefit us?
(oh wow, my first "Local Needs" part!)
We should look at what happened as a "JW.com Emergency Management Agency" drill. As more people join the board, the number of "kooks" will also increase. We will doubtless encounter many situations like this which play on our feelings for or against the JW's. Many will be very creative and intricate, like Danni's. Others may even take the guise of asking for financial support.
What we're dealing with here is psychological warfare. We may use the term "kook" or something similar to categorize the perpetrator, but that trivializes what they are doing. It would be a serious mistake to underestimate one who pulls off a hoax on Danni's level. This person accomplished their goal. Plain and simple, they won this time and we failed the "drill".
In my opinion the goal was to see how much damage could be done. And indeed, damage was done. There were arguments and hurt feelings, and I can see from this thread that there is still some anger. That hoax was nothing more than a terrorist attack, and I'm not simply using a "buzz-word" to incite anything here.
Sometime back, another poster complained of a "secret group" controlling the board and a "secret email list". I'm not trying to give any credibility to that conspiracy theory, but it does raise something to think about. There do need to be some behind the scenes to spot and root out people like "Danni" and that does include communications not made public on the board until necessary, however when the time is right the rest of us should be made aware. In other words, our own "Emergency Management Agency". I don't think anyone will disagree with me that this board is monitored by the JW authorities. I have no problem with that, nor should anyone else. It's a public place and the logo at the top of this page does say "everyone is welcome".
This is a controversial place, no question about it. We have posters who have to remain anonymous. We have many lurkers we don't even know about who have to remain silent and secret. They are the ones we have to protect. During the Danni incident, we failed them. First, they saw Danni's story. Then they saw us tear each other to pieces fighting over it. They saw something that should not happen here, namely attacks on people who question whether something is true or not. Y'all, that may have driven some in need of help away. If anything at all should be sacred to us, it is the right to freely and openly be skeptical of what is presented. Jesus did not berate "doubting Thomas", instead he lovingly reassured him. Couldn't the skeptics of Danni's story have been responded to in a different manner?
Just as the Watchtower is always saying how JW's have to "set an example", it's no different here.
I also hope that this hasn't made us too suspicious of some of the things we read here. We've simply got to "make sure of all things" (ok, I'm starting to sound a little to Watchtower-ish but you get my point).
One final note. After reading part of the Sexyteen thing, I think Simon could help clear some of this up as well and I haven't seen any info from him. Perhaps he would be so kind as to shed his own light on the matter.
Now we'll turn the meeting over to Brother Dave.
Mike.
"You can't have everything, where would you put it?" -- Steven Wright
Masterji,
<<<Question: How do you know that the apparent fake is a JW?>>>
I went by the timing and conversation during the IM session. I received the IM within minutes of emailing Danni to contact me via an AOL IM.
Andee,
I do understand and the feeling of respect and it's history is very mutual.
Bendrr,
You made my tummy quiver, brother Dave? As I said, to the best of my knowledge this is all a hoax. I may be wrong but most of the evidence points that way.
As far as someone winning? I don't know about that, it looks like those who had problems with others before this whole issue still have those problems. Those who did not still do not. I don't think that at any time during the whole mess did I jump on anyone in a manner to degrade or accuse. All I asked for was a little space and understanding while I tried to gather information. Pretty much everyone was very kind and understanding in this matter. Why some did not is something that is out of my hands. I guess everyone has reasons for thinking one way or another. I have usually found that what people say in a negative manner has little to do with the current issue but words are said because of previous problems with either someone or something that makes some people look at things a bit different.
The old H2O animosities seem to be fading out and that is a very good thing. The bad thing is it is fading out because some of those posters have left this board. I think that is very sad. It is so easy to say I'm sorry and lets drop it for good. If the other person persists then just ignore them. I was brought up in a family of 9 kids. The art of ignoring a sibling that was a constant irritant became essential to survival. What does someone really have to loose by saying I'm sorry or admitting they made a mistake? What do they have to gain by butting heads constantly? It's all in the big picture for me. Little battles are just that, little.
I hope this whole issue fizzles down. I don't know about anyone else but I learned a lot form it. Some good, some not so good.
Life goes on.
Dave
Teejay,
As I said before, you and I, as far as I can see, do not have a problem. As far as you and Alan, well I think that problem goes way beyond this issue. If you two continue I will have to stop the car and climb into the back seat and take both your lollipops away.
Yes, Alan is a very good friend but I am not his keeper. I do plan on smacking him up side his head when I go to visit him this Christmas. He can be a bad boy at times. His wife Julie has to constantly spank him for his mischievousness. Like all of us, he is still learning to fit in, huge brain and all.
Take care,
Dave
Dave,
I thought it was proof of your credibility that when you requested us to drop the subject, we did. Shows how much respect many of us here have for you.
I'm sorry that you got burnt over this issue, but that's life sometimes.
Hang in there buddy.
