If Armageddon came tomorrow, would Jehovah kill a billion children? (page 2)

designs

more blanks? what the... Anyway, reading Revelation in the Bible makes you shudder that we believed in the meaness of it all.

NewChapter

Yes thats right 400 years AFTER the event in question God orders vengence and every man woman, child, suckling and animal to be slaughtered

Yeah, that god person can really hold a grudge. But I think you'll find one common circumstance in the past slaughter of children that were not paying for their parent's sin. They all shared a close proximity with god's chosen people. So RUN! runrunrunrunrunrun Get as far away from god's people as you possibly can. Maybe you'll be safe.

Or, just accept that it's all a crock and that no Armageddon has been planned.

the-illuminator81

Not only will he kill a billion children, he will also let them know that he is Jehovah. Picture Jehovah running into an african refugee camp, holding his glock sideways and saying "I'm Jehovah, bitch!" and then shooting all those poor children to death. Now go around your neighborhood to share this good news.

ProdigalSon

Thank the TRUE God that Jehovah of the OT is only an underboss, and only exists in the minds of Zionist creeps and their deluded subjects. His existence is finite, because he is in actuality Satan. The Bible is crystal clear on that once you learn to read between the lines.

nicolaou

Genuine question; Is this not a dilemma for all Christian groups, not just JW's? Just what is the mainstream Christian view of Armageddon?

Nic'

blondie

The only comparison that should be made in this case of children being executed at Armageddon is to the flood and Sodom & Gomorrah.

Why, because we are talking about being dead forever, no hope of resurrection. The children killed on other occasions, have a hope of a resurrection per the WTS/jws.

The WTS has a teaching about a "judgment period" a time period during which those who don't "respond" descend into Gehenna or the second death.

The WTS has a teaching about an "age of accountability" when a child becomes personally responsible to God for their actions but never gives an specific age. See that 6 year olds have been allowed to get baptized at WT conventions, etc.,..

*** w56 5/15 pp. 308-309 pars. 14-15 Youth in the New World Society ***In Jesus’ day when some foolishly tried to prevent such righteousness-loving children from coming to him he rebuked those who would prevent them, saying: “Let the young children come to me, do not try to stop them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such kind of persons. Truly I say to you, Whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a young child will by no means enter into it.” He “took the children into his arms and began blessing them, laying his hands upon them.” This provided for them an opportunity for genuine happiness. They were free to come to Jesus and he unhesitatingly invited them to do so. He said concerning them: “Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings you have furnished praise.”—Mark 10:14-16; Matt. 21:16, NW.

His invitation to them to sing Jehovah’s praises meant too that it was proper for them to make a dedication to do Jehovah’s will. Faithful children today want to serve Jehovah lovingly and loyally and to follow in the same way that their devoted parents are going. Some may ask, then, Would it be proper for me in my early teens to make such a dedication vow and symbolize this by water immersion? Since many children are baptized each year at circuit assemblies and other conventions of Jehovah’s people, can it be said that this is the proper course for these young ministers to take? Of course, if they do not know in their own mind what they are doing, then they are not ready to take this vital and important step. The definite age as to when baptism or dedication is appropriate cannot be designated. If a child has sufficient knowledge of Almighty God, Jehovah, and his righteous purposes and adheres faithfully to the upright principles set down in his Word, if the child has reached the age of accountability and desires to make a dedication to Jehovah, it is in order for him to do so and it is then proper to take the step of baptism by water. Taking this essential and direct step toward life, the young minister will not be found in the position of the unrighteous. Dedication is an essential step and necessary to gain the approval of Jehovah God. Take note of the wise counsel of Solomon in this respect: “Remember also thy Creator in the days of thy youth, before the evil days come. . . . Fear God, and keep his commandments; for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every work into judgment, with every hidden thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.”—Eccl. 12:1, 13, 14, AS.

*** w55 7/1 pp. 411-412 pars. 18-19 Christian Baptism for the New World Society ***Who are eligible for baptism? Those who at the time of coming to be immersed can stand and say, aloud before the witnesses present, “Yes” to each of the following questions. (1) Have you recognized yourself before Jehovah God as a sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him the Father through his Son Christ Jesus? (2) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Christ Jesus and through the Bible under the enlightenment of the holy spirit?

Can children answer Yes to these questions? Some of them can, if they have understanding; some cannot, because they do not understand. It is up to the parent to guide the child in pure worship, and then the individual child must, upon reaching an age of accountability, decide whether to make a dedication or not, and, if a dedication is made, the child should be baptized in symbol of it.****see below

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If a child has no parents or legal guardians that are jws in good standing and are under 6, they are permanent toast.

jws will sidestep by saying God makes the final decision, implying that people who are not baptized jws might not be executed.

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*** w52 6/1 pp. 343-347 pars. 8-18 Fixing Destinies in This Judgment Period ***

At a time of judgment Jesus said: “If, then, a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit.” (Matt. 15:14, NW) That means not only clergy and laity but also parent and child. If a parent chooses to sin against the holy spirit despite the eternal interests of his offspring, that then becomes the responsibility of the parent. We have seen how the destructions at the time of the Flood and at the time of the fiery downpour on Sodom and Gomorrahwere final.No small children were preserved in the ark; they must have been slain by Jehovah. Many babes and youngsters must have been in Sodom and Gomorrah, but their youthful innocence did not cause Jehovah to count them righteous. The presence of ten righteous ones would have saved the cities. There were certainly more than ten unresponsible children. Along with their unrighteous parents they were slain by Jehovah.—Gen. 18:20-33; 19:1-26.

9 This principle of family responsibility also works in reverse, in what we might call family merit. Israelite firstborns were spared in the tenth plague because the family heads obeyed Jehovah’s command to spatter the Passover lamb’s blood on the doorposts. (Ex. 12:7, 13) Mephibosheth was spared because he was the son of Jonathan. (2 Sam. 21:7) Rahab’s wise course resulted in the preservation of her family. (Josh. 2:12-14) It was partly out of regard for Abraham that his nephew Lot was favored, and the angels that visited Sodom were, for Lot’s sake, going to allow him to take his relatives to safety with him. Their refusal and subsequent destruction shows that there must be co-operation with the family head if family merit is to be realized. (Gen. 19:12-14, 29) Of special interest to parents in these last days are Paul’s words: “The unbelieving husband is sanctified in relation to his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified in relation to the brother; otherwise, your children would really be unclean, but now they are holy.” (1 Cor. 7:14, NW) “Jehovah knows those who belong to him,” and that also means little children at Armageddon whose parents belong to Jehovah and who try to rear them according to God’s Word.—Deut. 6:6, 7; Eph. 6:4; 2 Tim. 2:19, NW.

10 These facts should make those of Jehovah’s witnesses who are parents soberly reflect on the theocratic training they now give their children. Parents are commanded to instruct their children in God’s ways, and if in these last days parents fail to heed the divine instructions they may bring destruction not only upon themselves but upon their small children at Armageddon. And if these small children become grown and responsible on their own before Armageddon strikes, the parental training may determine whether they choose the course of life or death. (Prov. 22:6) There comes a time when the maturing children shoulder the responsibility for themselves, having reached an age of accountability and responsibly choosing the course they will follow. They then come out from under family responsibility or merit and under the principle of personal responsibility: “The person who sins shall die. A son is not to suffer for his father’s iniquity, nor a father for his son’s iniquity; the good man shall be credited with his own goodness, and the wicked man with his own wickedness.”—Ezek. 18:20, Mo.

11 Some will argue that this text disproves the belief that small children will perish with their wicked parents at the end of judgment periods. But this text is not applicable to youngsters. The setting clearly shows that the son being discussed is grown, and not a small child. The preceding verses say that if a man is doing what is lawful and right he will live. If he begets a son that is violent, sexually depraved, oppressive of the poor and needy, a robber and an idolater, that wicked son will die for his iniquity. If the son shuns all these sins and does right, helps the poor, commits no crime, keeps God’s law, that son will live, whether his father be good or wicked. Each is on his own, being of the age of personal responsibility. Then all this is summed up in verse 20, above quoted. The verses that follow show that if the wicked son or father forsakes his evildoing and does right he will live, and that if the good son or father turns evil he dies for it. Now, what infant or small child could commit the sexual depravities or crimes or religious idolatries mentioned, or do the good works cited, or be able to weigh his course of action and decide to change it? The setting rules out any application of Ezekiel 18:20 to small children. So when of necessity young children come in for classification during a judgment period it is done on the basis of parental responsibility, and not personal responsibility.

12 Ezekiel 18:20 links father and son the way it does because in those olden days fully grown sons often remained in their father’s household and under his headship; and this sometimes even after they were married. As long as they remained in their father’s household they acknowledged his headship, but they did not stand or fall in God’s sight on the basis of their father’s conduct, in the way they once did when small. Though still in his household, they were accountable for themselves. They chose their own course relative to right and wrong. Recall that in the wilderness rebellion the offspring of Dathan and Abiram perished with their fathers, but that the sons of Korah did not die with him. (Num. 26:9-11) Apparently Korah’s sons had reached the age of responsibility and did not follow their father in rebellion.

COMMUNITY RESPONSIBILITY

13 In view of the eternalness of the destruction of those slain by Jehovah at Armageddon, some will ask about those who may not personally hear the message, especially in some lands that prohibit the witness work. In addition to family responsibility the Bible shows a communal or community responsibility, where a community upholds or goes along with rulers that persecute Jehovah’s people or are otherwise wicked. Did not the Egyptians suffer plagues because of Pharaoh’s hardness? (Ex. 5:1, 2; 9:13-16) Did not the Amalekites suffer for generations afterward because of Amalek’s opposition to Israel in the wilderness? (Ex. 17:8, 14, 16) King Saul brought trouble on Israel years after his death. (2 Sam. 21:1) David’s sins brought punishment upon the people. (2 Sam. 12:10-23; 24:10-17) Some relate some of this to ruler punishment rather than community responsibility, but it does show how the sins of one can affect many. It was unquestionably community responsibility when Achan trespassed and brought a military defeat on Israel. (Josh. 7:5, 13-21) Wicked men brought destruction upon the entire city of Gibeah, and those who supported Gibeah or merely refrained from helping punish her suffered with her. (Judg. 19:22-30; 20:40; 21:9, 10) Because King Jehoram of Judah deflected from God the nation went wrong and was punished. (2 Chron. 21:11-15) If idolatry started in a city in Israel and corrupted the inhabitants the city was destroyed. And other examples could be given. (Gen. 12:17; 20:9, 17; 26:10; Deut. 13:12-18) Matthew 10:14, 15, 23 shows households or cities that are unreceptive to the message will find judgment day unendurable. The principle applies on a national scale also.

14 The people must accept responsibility for the nation’s acts. If the government becomes too oppressive against them they oust it, by either ballots or bullets. But wickedness against God they placidly tolerate. To them personal convenience and liberty are more precious than godliness. They revolt from harsh rulers, but support godless ones. They lack the burning love for righteousness and the devouring hate for wickedness that would consume the corruption and immorality now rampant in all human governments. Rulers and ruled wallow in the trough of an international moral breakdown. (2 Tim. 3:1-5) Nations operate according to the principle of community responsibility. Rulers may start wars, but the people fight them. It is upon the people generally, young and old, male and female, that the enemy nation rains destruction, and not upon the wicked rulers. The nations in their wars sow death on the basis of community responsibility. Will it not be just for them to reap it on the same basis at Armageddon? Can they rightly complain if they reap as they sow, are judged as they judged, are shown the same mercy they showed? If the people either actively or passively support what is corrupt and immoral and murderous, do they not bear some responsibility therefor?—Matt. 5:7; 7:1, 2; Gal. 6:7; Jas. 2:13.

15 When the Israelites wanted a human king they were warned of the oppressions it would bring upon them. (1 Sam. 8:4-22) But they insisted on having human government, and rightly bore responsibility for the evil-doing of the human king, since they were responsible for his being put in a position where his flagrant sins were possible on a national scale. Today people vote into office politicians known to be corrupt, and thus empower them to capitalize on evil-doing. That the people must bear the responsibility before God is shown not only in Israel’s case above mentioned but by Paul’s counsel to Timothy about appointments in the Christian congregation: “Never lay your hands hastily upon any man; neither be a sharer in the sins of others; preserve yourself pure.” In addition to being warned against hasty appointments, Timothy was told what qualities to require of appointees to service positions. (1 Tim. 3:1-13; 5:22; 2 John 10, 11, NW) Why all this precaution? So that he might avoid being “a sharer in the sins of others”. If he made improper appointments he would become responsible for the sins of such appointees, since he put them in position to commit their sins that hurt the congregation in God’s sight. So the people who either vote wicked rulers into office or allow them to remain in power must accept responsibility for such rulers’ official acts and sins against God and man.

16 Actually, the majority of the people today lack a love for right and hate for wrong. They know the world is corrupt to the core. Yet they are apparently satisfied with it. At least they stick with it, and scoff when Jehovah’s witnesses expose it. They seem to “love to have it so”. (Jer. 5:31; 6:13) The corruption around them gives license to their own lusts, deadens any feeble protests of anemic consciences, scuttles any remaining scruples. They fear only punishment, not evil-doing: “Because the sentence upon an evil deed is not quickly executed, therefore the minds of the sons of men are fully determined to do evil.” (Eccl. 8:11, AT) They do not zealously “seek righteousness”, nor do they “sigh and cry” because of any offended sense of righteousness, but only when wrongs curb or halt their pursuit of selfish ends. (Ezek. 9:4; Zeph. 2:3) They are repelled by Jehovah’s message because it demands a separation from this corrupt, immoral, pleasure-mad world.

17 They are not like Noah was, for he was repelled by his fellow man whose “whole bent of his thinking was never anything but evil”. They are not like Lot was, for “that righteous man by what he saw and heard while dwelling among them from day to day was tormenting his righteous soul by reason of their lawless deeds”. They are not like those who are marked for preservation at Armageddon, who “sigh and cry for all the abominations that are done”. They are not like men of good will toward God today who gladly separate from the world because they have nothing in common with its corruption. (Gen. 6:5; Ezek. 9:4, AT; Jas. 1:27; 4:4; 2 Pet. 2:8, NW) They do not have to hear a specific message from God to be repelled by this world’s wickedness; not if they love right and hate wrong. Even without God’s Word men by nature and by conscience can note right and wrong. (Rom. 2:12-16) Those with honest hearts will sicken of this world, and more so as we advance toward Armageddon, for right up to that time “wicked men and impostors will advance from bad to worse, misleading and being misled”.—2 Tim. 3:13, NW.

18 Some argue that ignorance is an excuse that will gain a resurrection for many of Armageddon’s slain, such as those perishing because of community responsibility. They will cite Paul’s case. That former persecutor said: “I was shown mercy, because I was ignorant and acted with a lack of faith.” But he was shown this mercy during a judgment period, and did not spurn it. He used it to eliminate his ignorance and build up his faith. This show of mercy was also for another reason, to demonstrate divine long-suffering. (1 Tim. 1:12-16, NW) So to say Paul was saved because of his ignorance is wrong. Because he acted in ignorance repentance was possible for him, he had not unforgivably sinned against knowledge or the manifestation of the holy spirit. The world is full of Bibles, in more than 1,125 languages, and a glance at its pages is sufficient to convict the world’s conduct. But the masses of people remain ignorant “according to their wish”. (2 Pet. 3:5, NW) In some past times ignorance was overlooked by God, but it is not so during a judgment period, whether it be the one in Noah’s day, or Lot’s day, or Jesus’ day, or our day, or during the millennium. That is the point Paul was making when he said: “True, God has overlooked the times of such ignorance, yet now he is telling mankind that they should all everywhere repent.” Why? “Because he has set a day in which he purposes to judge the inhabited earth.” (Acts 17:30, 31, NW) As previously stated, that day for most men will be the millennial reign; but others have had or are having their judgment period earlier. Such periods are no time for ignorance, but for repentance.

NewChapter

The only comparison that should be made in this case of children being executed at Armageddon is to the flood and Sodom & Gomorrah.

Blondie, that is a valid point. I do remember reading that David's son, the dead baby, was not a candidate for resurrection because David and Bathsheba had no right to the child because they had committed adultery. No mention of how the babe might feel about that. Anyway, I'm searching the cd for that now, and can't find it. I'm pretty sure it's there because it bothered me. With that reasoning. think of all the people that would not be candidates for resurrection because their parents had no right to conceive them CHILLING

Mr. Falcon

The most I can hope for is to die with a drink in my hand.

leavingwt

If Armageddon comes tomorrow, the WT version of God will kill at least 90% of all Asian children.

Thankfully, the WT version of God doesn't exist. Moreover, Armageddon is a fantasy, too.

Carry on.

skeeter1

What really gets me is why a perfect God would kill imperfect people.

Change is hard for us imperfect people. Most people are not going to change their childhood beleifs on religion. It seems "strange" for a "Christian" to worship a "Buddha"; and likewise in reverse. Why, it's hard to eat food from another part of the world, if it's not something we ate as a kid. Try eating monkey brains. It's super hard to learn a new language after growing up. So, a loving "God" is going to smite grownups and children off the face of the Earth just because they are imperfect and not able to quickly adopt in a 6 month time frame to being a out-in-service, baptised publisher of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Publishing Megahouse. Come on, give me a break.

There are learning disabled people in my family. We love them and applaud what they are able to do given their limitations.

This is why I first left the concept of Jehovah, Armegheddon, and billions being killed by the smite of his hand. If there is a perfect God, He would not kill his imperfect creations.

Skeeter

If Armageddon came tomorrow, would Jehovah kill a billion children?

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