A Lurker taking a step out of the shadows

by AlmightyDog 44 Replies latest jw friends

  • Giordano
    Giordano

    The first mistake is the family WT study...... all that does is strengthen them not you. Worse yet they are reliving the pleasure they get at hearing the familar reassurance's while you sit there and listen to the WT crap. How about changing that to a family bible reading study?

    We had a poster on here a while back that led his family out of the witnesses world by simply reading the bible together and talking about what they read.

    Aren't bethelites supposed to read the entire bible during their first year? What's good for them should be plenty good for your family. Start with the 'light getting brighter' chapter. Don't lead them the words are plain and simple to understand. Tell them reading that may help you see the light getting brighter. Let them see for themselves what it actually says. Or start with the gospels. It's a great story but it's going to sound different in context which is the point.

    There was another brother on this site who stopped handing out literture and just used his bible at the door. Read a passage and then wished them a good day. The bible is a pretty powerful book.............. use it as a tool.

  • Yan Bibiyan
    Yan Bibiyan

    AD, a big warm WELCOME! (my third welcoming a new member today!!! - yipeeeee, keep it up peoples )

    I feel for you and the tough place you are in!

    There is a poster here (Mad Sweeney), who had used the family study night to study the Bible and only the Bible and it had helped his wife see the light. This is only a paraphrased account (Mad, I hope you don't mind), but anything could trigger the reasoning in your wife's head...Or so we hope!

    I second the suggestion of reading Steve Hassan's "Combatting Mind Control"

    Wish you the best, hang in there and hopefully you will be posting better news soon!

    -Yan

  • Lozhasleft
    Lozhasleft

    Hello Almighty Dog and a big welcome to you. It takes a lot of courage to start posting on here (I remember it well), however, it is a very good place to be, with support, care, insight, wisdom, and freedom of thought and speech. I'm sure you'll benefit as much as I have.

    Your predicament is real and difficult. You will now have to learn tactics to be able to break through your wife's cult personality to reach her logical reasoning powers, and there are lots of suggestions on here to help you. It wont happen overnight, but there is hope, especially if she trusts you and knows you to be a genuine person.

    The org's main tactic is to convince individuals that loyalty to them = loyalty to Jah, which of course cant be right since they behave so unscripturally in so many areas, but its not easy for her to see and believe that, is it?

    I admire your determination to get your children out....the org has cost me my five adult kids and my friends of 30 years. Please dont risk yours. I wish you well in your journey.

    Loz x

  • Terry
    Terry

    Framing this issue is all important right now.

    Please accept this advice in the spirit it is intended. I wish to help.

    "Having Doubts" is really an ineffective way to present where you are in your thinking. Red flags start flying everywhere. Alarm bells go off!

    You may as well have said "I'm an enemy"!

    If you came home with lipstick on your shirt collar and smelling of strange perfume but you demanded that your wife believe you without allowing her to question the damning evidence...would your Loyalty Test indicate guilt or innocence on your part?

    The same is true for religion.

    Think of the famous Boreans. They wanted to prove to themselves they weren't being razzle-dazzled by crafty cultists, right? They wanted constant proof by searching the scriptures. How are they characterized? As doubters? No. "Noble minded". Isn't that a lovely phrase? :)

    You are being a Borean. You are being faithful to reality. Testing FOR reality is noble-minded.

    Imagine how the Jewish community felt when Jesus as Rabbi started to sound like Jesus as cult-leader or Jesus as rival deity to Jehovah!

    RELIGIOUS BELIEF is founded on ORTHODOXY.

    That means "no changes".

    An HONEST man has to expect reality to match his beliefs only if he TESTS those beliefs against reality constantly. (Daily, like the Boreans.)

    Here is where the average JW goes wrong. There is no actual reality testing going on. Why? The JW's are cut-off from controversial lines of communication and isolated from information sources. That is---information sources OTHER than orthodox.

    It becomes an issue of LOYALTY tests rather than REALITY tests. And that is when cults come to life!

    When Faith is more of a Loyalty issue than a Reality-match you have entered the valley of the shadow of cults.

    Now what can we mean when we use the word: Reality? Reality is things as they really are...outside of...what we WISH them to be.

    Jehovah's Witnesses WISH themselves to be the only true religion. But--they do not really want anything to intrude on their Loyalty to that assertion.

    So, instead of reality testing they Loyalty test. "With us or against us" replaces "If we aren't right we shall change".

    The humble willingness to be wrong and change vanishes with Loyalty tests.

    So, your first problem is repairing the damage you've done by labeling yourself as DISLOYAL.

    JW's are ready to declare Thought Crimes!

    You must remedy that.

    You can drive a wedge if you are careful about what you say and how you say it.

    For instance:

    "Honey, my scriptural obligation to this family comes before everything else. A man who does not provide for members of his own househould is worst than an infidel. If something is TRUE it matches reality. My personal obligation to you and this family is to make sure of what is true by testing, like the Boreans, against reality. That is where integrity to god begins. Don't you agree?"

    "I'm not afraid of what is true and neither should you be. We have an obligation to Jehovah to make certain that when we say we are "in the Truth" we aren't just drifting along without actual effort on our part in VERIFYING our belief against actual events."

    "Testing our faith against CLAIMS of Truth is a moral obligation if we are honest. How can we be honest if we are not willing to face what may be disappointing facts?"

    "If the Nation of Israel was God's chosen people and they proved unfaithful they lost his favor. Why would his True religion today be any different?"

    Facts speak for themselves. But, deliberately NOT listening to facts is intellectual dishonesty.

    To hear the facts you have to discover where they are.

    IF you were in a cult that was hiding the facts about their claims--would you not expect them to forbid outside investigations?

    You must be very careful how you tread. Speak with confidence about integrity, honor, humility. DON'T LET the conversation drift into TESTS OF LOYALTY.

    That is a loser.

    When loyalty questions come up reply with your own question: "Which is more important to Jehovah: Truth or Loyalty?"

    That should take the initiative away from their attack.

    Jews in Jesus day were steadfast in Loyaty to their traditions. The Pharisees were duty bound to accuse any who strayed from tradition by labeling them apostate.

    Latter day Pharisees are no different. Honest speech should not be condemned by truth seekers; only by loyalty testers.

    Here is another thought provoking rhetorical query: "If you had to choose between Loyalty to Jehovah or Loyalty to a religion who claimed to represent Jehovah, which should we choose?"

    The answer is: we can't serve man rather than God.

    The issue is one of integrity to truth beyond mere claims.

  • dontplaceliterature
    dontplaceliterature

    AlmightyDog,

    Welcome to the board, I am also new to this forum, and am still an active member, though a Ministerial Servant, not an Elder. My wife doesn't "freak out" when I express contrary ideas about WTBS doctrine to her, but she clearly doesn't want to talk about it either...same ol' "trust the organization" garbage.

    Like you, what petrifies me the most is raising my children to be Jehovah's Witnesses as well. I can't imagine willfully trapping them into the same predicament I am in currently. I would say that this is the main reason I began to really do some soul searching on my beliefs. I don't have kids currently, but my wife is pregnant with our first. I have never prayed more or read the Bible more than I currently am. This has only lead me further away from Jehovah's Witnesses emotionally and spiritually. How could that be if they are God's true organization?

    Be careful with your wife. Making an adversary out of her will probably not help her follow you out of "The Truth" if that is your long-term plan.

    Giordano's suggestion of reading The Bible with your family is the best thing you could do. There is no way she'll be able to argue with the sensibility of the Scriptures when considered in context. The Watchtower magazines are only designed to expound on and defend a particular belief system, using the Bible to support that, rather than the other way around. They will not help you one iota.

    If you discuss the passages as you read them, and share with her what you feel they mean, she'll be able to see the difference between what is actually written, and what The Watchtower says is there. You won't have to point it out everytime.

    I wish all the best to you and your family. Take things with a grain of salt that are said on this forum (in case someone offends your sense of loyalty), and keep your nose in your Bible.

    -dpl

  • carla
    carla

    Welcome to the board! Sorry for your troubles.

    Is it possible to do the family study with just a bible? would that be allowed after he had mentioned doubts?

  • dontplaceliterature
    dontplaceliterature

    Nice comments, Terry.

  • Heaven
    Heaven

    Is it possible to do the family study with just a bible? would that be allowed after he had mentioned doubts?

    Welcome AD! I am glad you see 'da troof' for what it is. Mad Sweeney was able to get his family out by doing what Carla has suggested. The Bible does not support most JW doctrine.

    In order to be a JW, one must first discard one's ability to be honest with oneself as well as others. Next, they must be outward looking instead of inward looking and self-aware. Once a person has given up these 2 foundational principles, it is very tough to show them the falacy of their beliefs.

    I hope you are able to break through to your family.

  • mrquik
    mrquik

    Again, great advice from Terry. You are not alone. Many here were servants, pioneers & Bethelites. Many, like myself have family still in & know how frustrating it is to reason with them. Be patient. The field service tactics we learned cut both ways. You already have the skills. Wish you the best.

  • willyloman
    willyloman

    Yours is a difficult position, but consider all those "worldly" people who joined the JWs and the many challenges they faced in making radical lifestyle changes. To become a JW means abandoning family and friends, "studying" WT publications to learn a new way to think, to adopt a whole new paradigm or world view. It means no longer celebrating cherished holidays and events, to the dismay of family and former friends. It means putting your children's life on the line (and yours) with regard to potential life-saving medical procedures, to say nothing of forcing your childen to become outcasts among their peers in school. And the list goes on. Who, faced with all that, would even begin the process? The reason some do is that they don't have to make all these changes abruptly, but rather a step at a time.

    Your situation is just like that, only in reverse. You studied your way in, now you have to study your way out. Having now learned the real "truth about the truth" you are conscientiously bound to move forward. As you continue "studying" the real truth about the Truth and get stronger and learn the difference between jay-dub spirituality and the real thing, obstacles will start to fall.

    You've received excellent advice in this thread, including what Terry said, above. You had to adopt an attitude and stand the moral high ground, having determined that you now see the forest for the trees. Once you have seen the real truth, there is no going back. You can either stand still and be miserable or move forward in your journey. The discovery process will be enlightening and you may be amazed at the changes that take place around you.

    My wife and all my children (all grown) followed my example and are no longer JWs. It took surprisingly little time, once we began talking about what I was learning and applying it to dub principles. As Terry suggests, I positioned all my discussions from "within" rather than attacking the organization. Focus on the things about JW teachings that you know drive your wife crazy. JWs live a contradictory life; spotlight those contradictions in a kind way.

    Sift all the advice you're getting thru your own personal screen and use it however it best suits you. And move forward, slowly but steadily. Read everything you can, including Crisis of Conscience. But cite biblical texts and JW writings whenever you make the case for "examining these things daily."

    And be sure to demonstrate your love for your wife; she is frightened of what you are learning for many reasons, but chief among them is the fear that you will leave her and break up the family. Make it clear to her that you have no intention of doing that.

    If you select a path for yourself and follow it, you will like yourself better and have a good conscience. And, if it's meant to be, your loved ones will see your example and follow.

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