I have to say that their is a good amount of witness parents that lack the ability to provide nurturing,respectfull relationships with their children..Eventhough,this type of relationship disregards a childs self worth,and is extremely detrimental..In my personal experience that type of relationship,enabled each in every one of my siblings and I,to become more independant thinkers..However,the anger and resentment is an extremely difficult thing deal with. And the lack of compassion my parents express ;when confronted ,is disturbing,to say the least.. The benefit from this toxic relationship,is one can be even more determined to be the exact oppposite..And,motivated to find a more healthy ,balanced outlook,in regards to religious affiliation and family life...But I got to say ,its very hurtful,and disheartening to experience their lack of accountabilty..
Toxic Relationships
by serenitynow! 57 Replies latest jw friends
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blondie
Serenity, I went through quite a bit with my mother from my earliest memory as her daughter. Toxic is her middle name. Finally in my mid-40's I realized there was no negotiation, no control of the negativity. So I just cut myself off from all contact. It has taken 10 years but I never hear from her, she tries going through my husband, with no success. We just toss all mail, filter all phone calls, and even stop others from trying to mediate. It has been freeing and I feel no guilt. My mother is just an egg donor. There are many other women in my life that have been the nurturing "mothers" I needed in my life. I honor those women.
Love, Blondie
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no more kool aid
Hi Serenity, I know first hand how difficult this must be for you. I have not spoke with my very JW mother since July. It just all came to a boiling point and I had to say enough, it was decades in the making. It is very difficult to see a toxic relationship when you are in one and really know nothing else. It is impossible for there to be a real closeness because the cult is always right there in the middle, any opinion, fear or topic you may bring up is interrupted by the WT "view" .
You may not miss the interaction with her, but you may have to say goodbye to the idea in your head of what a good mother daughter relationship could and should be. Also I don't like the idea of (myself) a person who doesn't talk to my own mother and what kind of example is that to my own kids. Just wanted to let you know you are not alone in this struggle. Your emotional health and future are the most important thing! In my thoughts! NMKA
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serenitynow!
Thanks so much for the kind words and advice everybody. I will definitely check out those books. I've tried to prepare myself for the possibility that she won't be able to change.
6 of 9, my mom has never gotten a psych eval, so I don't know what her diagnosis is. I am convinced that she has a serious mental disorder. She is the adult child of an abusive alcoholic. Her father was physically abusive to her mother, and as rumor has it to the children. She denies that her father abused her, and when asked if he abused her siblings she says something like, "I never saw him do anything." She blocks things out a lot. I took her to an Al-anon meeting so we could both learn how to better support my sister who is 2 years sober. After the meeting, which I honestly was surprised she finally agreed to go with me to, she admitted to me that her father was indeed an alcoholic and mean. She had never said it before. So she has made progress. Sometimes I wonder if she hears voices, growing up she would be in her own world, laughing maniacally to whatever was going on in her head. She still believes that people are listening to her conversations, she told us that people could watch us from the other side of the TV, that there was a file on her at the mayor's office, just to state a few delusions. She does not believe in coincidence; anything that happens, she considers to be part of some big plot. She has panic attacks, which I really think for her is just attention-seeking. When she lived with me for a couple of years (that almost killed me) she started with a panic attack, and ran to the phone to call for an ambulance. I told her to sit down and take some deep breaths, and that if she called 911, I was going to get her an emergency psych eval, and try to get her committed- and guess what, the panic attack suddenly went away, never to return. She denies having any mental problems, will not go to a therapist. I have asked her if she would go to family therapy with me and my sister, she refuses.
Hoser, my mother is well versed in the bible (NWT). She is like a savant, that is the ONLY thing that she knows. I am totally out of my element trying to debate the bible with my mom. Also, I am not interested in the bible, I don't think I ever was. Anyway, she does not change her answer based on what I say, it's like she just pauses to let me say something, and then she just keeps on talking. I say, "I don't believe in god, I don't believe the bible is inspired, holy, sacred, etc." She responds by quoting scripture and telling me to pray develop a relationship with jehovah. I'm like "hello, did you hear anything I just said?"
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LV101
TotallyADD --- agree w/you --- Toxic Parents is an incredible reality book and I was going to recommend same. Another great read is Drama of the Gifted Child --- Alice Miller, an unbelievable psychiatrist, opens the eyes. Learning to deal w/our family of origin is quite an education and the cOda.org is a free meeting people can attend to learn to deal w/family, life. I highly recommend this group to learn life skills and meet individuals learning to be safe, healthy, individuals.
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Snoozy
Some people are able to block any unpleasantness (That they did) from their minds. I mean totally. I have seen it done. The funny part is they all had the same type personality. Self absorbed.
Even when confronted be a few people they still deny. And they can do this and convince you they are telling the truth! Especially about abuse.
But I have my own views on cutting our relatives out of our lives..I don't agree with throwing people away, especially our close relatives. So one said relationships would always be easy. I love my parents no matter what and my childhood wasn't easy. (Not JW) I could be on the pity train but what good would it do?
I loved my parents to the end and understood that they had their own problems and dealt with them the best they could. As far as talkng on the phone, I always dreaded that Sunday call from my Mom..just idle chit chat but still didn't like it.
Now I miss those calls. Every Sunday I expect the phone to ring and she would be on the line.
My parents didn't beat me (my brother remembers otherwise) but there are all kinds of abuse. It wasn't pleasant. I had a lot of problems in my life because of it. But I still loved my parents and respected them as such. I didn't expect perfection from them and wouldn't dream of just throwing them away because they got on my nerves..
JMO Snoozy
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Snoozy
I also want to add that I think anyone that is dealing with past/present issues in their life concerning their (toxic) relatives should seek counseling to help them deal with the abusive/ toxic people. I don't mean to let them walk all over you but learn how to deal with them. Running away doesn't help in my opinion. The problem is always in your mind still..until you learn to deal with them!
JW's are in fact doing the same thing in their minds..Shunning =eliminating toxic people (non JW's) from their lives.. throw them away so to speak..
I also think if we eliminate everyone that we feel may be toxic to our lives we would soon be a hermit!!!
Again..JMO
Snoozy
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AGuest
Dearest Serenity... peace to you! Is there any way you can/would send [a printout of] this thread to your mom? I ask because, if you're relationship is truly over (or can't be salvaged right now, if ever), you really have nothing to lose. What you have to gain, however, is that by reading how you view her, what YOU think/feel/believe, you might be able to win her.
I have great sorrow for those who've "lost" their parents/children, etc. to the Borg. My mother (who I only knew for about 10 years of my life) died from pancreatic cancer on my 18th birthday. My dad, who was my hero and one of the lights of my life, died about 11 years later from a heart attack. I miss them both (terribly, at times!) and I often rue that I didn't have much time with them or get to care for them in their old age. They were not Witnesses so I don't think I would have had the same experience as some have; however, my mother was devout Lutheran and her family openly disowned me (after her death) when I became a Witness, so...
Anyway, my point is that time lost... is time lost. You can't get it back again. I am [somewhat] grateful that I don't have to deal with ultra-JW... or poorly aging... parents. But I am also hugely sad for the time lost... whatever time before... and ALL of the time since. Because of this, I have endeavored to be as close to my own children as I possibly can... and we are close. But in that light, I think I would have to tell them how I felt... about anything that came between us. Particularly if it was their choice of [christian] religion (as I can't see God or Christ in that!) . I would also let them know my concern for their mental health, if I had some.
Again, I would do this on the basis of what I had to lose - if nothing, then I would absolutely proceed because nothing ventured... nothing gained. I do realize, however, that sometimes our relationships are based more on duty... than on love... and that is may be just as difficult for "us" to relate to THEM (especially if they never taught us love, so that we don't know how to put it out any more than they do)... as it is for them to relate to us.
I wish you... and your dear mother... peace, truly!
A slave of Christ,
SA
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Atman
She is fanatically religious, often keeps me on the phone for hours while she talks endlessly about the bible. Attempts to steer her to other topics are never successful.
Toxic people have toxic relationships. A healthy person can move beyond and not engage a toxic person. It truly does take two to tangle. We all have the ability to create the life we want and if you no longer want to have a relationship with your mother because you are not able to (at this time) separate her emotional blackmail from your need to have a mother/daughter relationship, one could say the proverbial writing is on the wall. You my dear have some growing to do and when you are stronger you will not mind having a casual relationship with your mother. Take the good, ignore the bad.
There are ways to grow, mature and become strong without totally cutting a toxic person out of your life. You define how you want to be treated and when you wish or don't wish to engage them. Funny thing about phones, texting, email....ect...we can control when we want to use them or not.
Think about it. Life is not all black and white, this or that we have other options, think about yours and what you truly want and how you contribute to the outcome.
Peace, out.
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sherah
Hugs to you Serenity. You may not think so but it took a lot courage to express yourself to your mother. Most perps claim forgetting about past abuse or are just indifferent. They don't want you to acknowledge the past either.
The book Toxic Parents addresses this and also the book Emotional Blackmail. I hope you can come to a peaceful place in your relationship with your mother.