Are you a TRUE Christian?!? (page 12)

designs

Ding-

Its Theology, what part of making sense is required.......

SweetBabyCheezits

I will have to listen to it again. From what I recall he was basically arguing against the doctrine of predestined election and that if you fell away from Christ, you never were one of the elect anyway.

Yes, Dan, please listen to it again. You definitely misunderstood. He was explaining why it is fallacious reasoning for anyone to make that claim, on either side of the debate, regarding those who convert or deconvert. The whole point of the video is to argue against the No TRUE Scotsman fallacy.

If any Christian said that to him, they were wrong for doing so. They can't make that kind of judgement.

Yes, a point well-made in the video.

We are not a bunch of extremely educated professors on this site. We are a bunch of ex cultists that are trying to figure things out after being lied to for years. So why pretend?

Who's pretending? I just said I had high confidence in the scientific method. Never stated any specific theories. I don't know any answers regarding the moment of the Big Bang. I don't claim to. And I've not heard any reputable scientist claim to have definitive answers on that subject, unlike Christians. There seems to be much that is unexplained.... and I can accept that since we're talking about MAN finding the answers without help from above.

But the fact that there are issues with the Big Bang theory doesn't mean the Christian explanation is, by default, right. Such a false dichotomy represents closed-minded thinking.

The fact is there may be numerous other plausible explanations for the First Cause that man cannot know right now. So instead of throwing up my hands and saying, "Welp, that only leaves Jesus!" I'm going to wait it out and probably die not knowing.

In the meantime, I have no problem ruling out absolutist, self-refuting "explanations" that are based on bronze-age omnigods who lacked the ability to clearly communicate instructions.

BTW, some of us who aren't Christian are also not atheists.

"Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong." H.L. Mencken

trevor

BTW, some of us who aren't Christian are also not atheists.

Understanding this is this is the beginning of wisdom. We all seek certainty - a firm position we can rely on. But the reality is that certainty just disappears.

The quest for truth is a never ending journey. Each of us are just a small part of that journey.

designs

Dan,

You mean everyone here who tells us they are Born Again or hear voices and proclaim themselves 'Saved', 'Chosen', 'the Elect' etc. are just making it up even though they swear they are experiencing something. Boy no wonder our former religion the JWs snicker at the 'Christian' community, its like a convenience store, 7/11 anyone name your flavor.

brotherdan

trevor, I tend to use the atheist vs Christian argument because agnostics are all over the place in beliefs. But atheists are so sure that there is not a God and say that if you DO believe in a God, then you are not rational.

Since the range of agnostic belief is SO wide, then I usually don't choose to debate it initially.

brotherdan

If you proclaim yourself to be born again, I give you the benefit of the doubt. The only requirement is to come to Jesus for salvation. 1John 5:1. It's not a 24 hour convenience store. Obviously many, like yourself, choose to reject Him as Lord and Savior.

I do not feel authorized to judge anyone as a "real" or a "false" Christian. As far as I'm concerned, if you profess Christ to be your savior and went to Him with that desire, then you are a Christian in my book. You may sin. You may sin for a prolonged period of time. But a Christian will return to Christ. If that one dies in sin, it's up to God to decide. But I don't think that they CAN lose their reward after being born again.

I have never heard actual voices, but I have seen God use me in ways that I couldn't have expected to be used. And I thank Him for that. I don't want to judge anyone. I'm not a believer in tongues or the other spiritual gifts at this time. Does that mean that I think that those that believe in them are less Christian than I am? Absolutely not.

sleepingbeauty

I no longer consider that being a nice person relates to the term Christian. I'm nice and dont look to Jesus in anyway, so Im no longer a follower of Christ. Whats the point ? To be a Christian would mean that you would consider other peoples method of belief as wrong. (Who are we to decide / judge that?)

Just being a nice person is just people being people, without the need for religious involvement. I just dont think a Bible or whatever it is people hold dear is the only thing guiding them through life. My children have citizenship lessons at school as do all the other children & I think this is enough for them to learn to be fair & nice to others ...

trevor

For years, I kept hearing a voice in my head telling me what to do.

I resisted for years, but you know how persistent wives can be.

SweetBabyCheezits

I tend to use the atheist vs Christian argument because agnostics are all over the place in beliefs.

But, Dan, TRUE agnostics all share the same fundamental belief that man cannot know if a god or gods exist.... just as all TRUE Christians share... wait, what do they share again?

But atheists are so sure that there is not a God and say that if you DO believe in a God, then you are not rational.

Not all atheists are equally outspoken. Perhaps some atheists say those things about you and your particular god because of how absolute you are in your view. Maybe they wouldn't feel the need to mention rationality if you weren't so dogmatic about your, well... irrationality.

Besides, why do you want to have your cake [fundi-like Christian faith] and eat it, too [rationality]?

EDIT: Oh, one last thing.... It seems that because you see your god as the only possible creator, you might view anyone who adamantly rejects the notion of Him to be an atheist.

Just to clarify, there are also agnostic-types who don't believe we can know if acreator (or creators) exist but feel quite certain that specificgods do not exist, based on the deities' detailed descriptions.

Are you a TRUE Christian?!?

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