I'm sorry, but when I read Aguest's posts, they make me think of Garth on Waynes world. But instead of "Schwing" it's "Peace to you".
Are you a TRUE Christian?!?
by brotherdan 152 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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AGuest
You actually read my posts, dear BroDan (peace to you)??? Well, doo-dah! I must admit, I am a bit flattered.
Peace to you!
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
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undercover
The TRUE Christian definition is one of the more sublime doctrines of the JW religion.
By sublime I mean it passes back and forth from one meaning to another.
By definition, the True Christian Congregation is made up of the 144,000 along with Christ as leader. If one is not a member of that class then technically speaking, one is not a True Christian.
So, does that mean all other followers of Christ/Jehovah are just plain ole everyday run of the mill Christians without the label of "true"? No, actually the answer would be that they are not Christians at all. They would be just "followers" of Christ and worshippers of Jehovah. By the strictest of definitions, that is.
Problem is, the WTS doesn't stick to it's own criteria when identifying Christians within their own framework. In one breath the WTS will identify the 144,000 as the True Christian Congregation but then turn right around and indicate that JWs are, as a religion, Christian.
And the reason they have to be so coy about it is that JWs don't really know that they are not part of the Christian Congregation. They identify themselves as Christians and Jesus as leader, not realizing that they are only connected by associating with the Slave class as followers, not as Christians. Make that point clear to them and you'd probably have a mutiny on your hands and the GB would lose control. So they let the non-annointed think they're Christian so as to keep the peace in the ranks.
So, if you've never been in any religion other than JWs and were not part of the annointed, then you weren't ever really a Christian, true or otherwise. A fact that I'm glad to be able to admit to these days...
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brotherdan
Of course I read your posts Shelby! We may disagree on certain matters, but you're still my sister in Christ!
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SweetBabyCheezits
Dan, any comments on Friday's rebuttal/discussion of the No TRUE Scotsman fallacy (page 2)?
Despite our quasi-debate, I thought we agreed on the underlying principle of it. Did I misunderstand your arguments against the narrator's reasoning?
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brotherdan
I will have to listen to it again. From what I recall he was basically arguing against the doctrine of predestined election and that if you fell away from Christ, you never were one of the elect anyway.
If any Christian said that to him, they were wrong for doing so. They can't make that kind of judgement.
As far as the big bang argument is concerned, I too have respect for scientific method. But there are incredible problems with the big bang that atheists seem to shrug off. They can't explain how nothing caused something. That moment of creation...they can't explain it in ANY way. So to me it makes more sense to belive in an intelligence that caused the effect, than to believe the effect was caused by nothing.
Like I said, I'll have to watch the youtube video again. I just remember that he was using the same rehashed arguments that I've heard from other atheists. They like to say that anyone that believes in God is not rational and are not critical thinkers.
We are not a bunch of extremely educated professors on this site. We are a bunch of ex cultists that are trying to figure things out after being lied to for years. So why pretend? But there are thousands of well educated scientists that believe in Intelligent Design, and also believe in the scientific method. So saying that only those that are rational accept that there is no God or cause to the universe as we know it are going against actual data.
There is a reason why we have not become an atheistic society. There are plenty of good reasons of believing in God. And that is why there will always be something to talk about between atheists and the religious.
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designs
'if you fell away you were never one of the elect', now when an Evangelical accuses Witnesses and the Leadership of wrongs they are bonified JWS, but when they screw up they were never really Born Again.
makes you wonder.....
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Ding
Following up on Undercover's post, the WT doctrine is very strange.
If they call the "other sheep" true Christians, then they are teaching that a person can be a true Christian without being reborn spiritually (John 3:3; 1 Peter 1:3), without "eating [Christ's] flesh and drinking his blood," (John 6:53-54) without having life in themselves (same passage), without having eternal life (same passage), without having Christ as their mediator (Heb. 9:15; 12:24), and without being in the New Covenant of Christ's blood (Hebrews 12:24; 13:20).
That make make sense to a JW but it all hinges on the WT supposition that Jesus' comment about the "little flock" (Luke 12:32) is the same as the 144,000 of Revelation.
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brotherdan
but when they screw up they were never really Born Again.
That is not a teaching of the Christian chuch. If you have faith in Christ as your savior, even though you may sin (even prolonged sin), that does not make your salvation any less sure. It shows that Christ sacrifice was great enough to even cover over all sorts of sin. We can't use the term "true Christian" or "false Christian" until we are proclaimed as such by our Lord and Savior. Any human that presumes to do this is going beyond what authority they have.