Are you a TRUE Christian?!? (page 6)

Perry

I was absolutely a true Christian while a JW. ...I'm not a Christian at all now, but do try to follow the Golden Rule and Wiccan Rede to the best of my ability.

White Dove,

I felt the same way for a time after I left until a fellow christian associate, sensing my self sufficiency quoted this scripture to me:

Isaiah 64:6 - But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags;

God is saying that on our best day, our righteousness (not our sins mind you) are still tainted by sin and are like filthy rags. I had read the bible since childhood, pioneered, etc. but never recalled hearing or reading this scripture. This is a VERY common scripture cited in Christian services, but I never heard it ONE TIME in all my years at the KH.

When a person fully surrenders to the authority of Christ ALONE, something happens. That person is given a new spirit. He is a totally new creation never before seen in the universe.

The power of sin is broken. And if a Christian could live by that new spirit totally, he wouldn't sin at all. However, the body is left under the power of sin even after being born again. The body's redemption doesn't happen until Christ's return (rapture for "those who remain" or resurrection for those who have already died).

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Galatians 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Notice the word "if". If a person cannot give testimony of being born again, a renewed spirit, dramatic (if not total) victory over sin , then that person is likely is not a Christian.

For me, this was the missing part of the puzzle. I was quite rebellious after the 1975 debacle during ALL of my teen years. After that I decided I really did love God and wanted to love righteouness and hate sin. But, after 8 years as a totally committed JW TRYING TO BE GOOD, I realized that my experience with what I thought was Christianity, was muct different than the victories I read about in the NT. My situation got much worse.

After surrendering and getting born again 7 years ago, I can say with authority - having experienced both - that now I don't work at being good. Because I have a new spirit, good is what happens when my flesh takes a back seat. It happens naturally. Whereas, as a JW I was trying to fight the flesh AND TRYING TO BE GOOD at the same time. And as such, my attempts at my own ideas of righteousness were just "filthy rags".

Surrendering to the authority of Christ and subsequently receiving a NEW Spirit is abundantly clear in scripture:

Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot ° see the kingdom of God.
John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Ding

Garyneal,

You told us your JW wife stated:

"I think the Bible is correct in that all of us have one faith and one hope."

A good reply might be, "You mean the 144,000 and the great crowd have one faith and ONE hope? Now I'm confused. I thought the WTS teaches that the 144,000 have a heavenly hope, are born again, get to partake of the bread and wine at the Memorial, and have Jesus as their mediator and that the `other sheep' have none of the above. Please clear up my misunderstanding."

Perry

Excellent points Ding!!

But I think you left out the biggest difference: According to the Wt - Only the 144,000 have their sins forgiven!

Luke 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament [covenant] in my blood, which is shed for you.

And again:

Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

And again:

Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

mindmelda

The most interesting thing about this whole thread is the assumption that everyone would even want to be a Christian, or that it's that appealing, or that everyone thinks that there are true and false Christians. Is this even a valid question to millions of people? No.

There are millions of Buddhists who could care less, and millions of Hindus, Muslims and animists, Wiccans, Pagans and Atheists and unchurched people who could CARE LESS about wanting to be Christians or the purported dire consequence of not being such.

I know some very good people who are Christian, but I see nothing that convinces me that simply by virtue of Christianity they are better people, because I know people in all the above mentioned groups who are the same; good, decent, loving, peaceful, compassionate people, all the things that Christianity claims as it's special province.

I am far from anti-Christian, that would make me a hypocrite, as I hate the divisive nature of religion. I simply see no difference in what it does for or to people than any other religion if they take the positive principles and apply them and ignore some that are actually negative, in that they don't seem to make anyone a better or happier person. But, you can find those ideas from secular and non-Christian sources, honestly, you can. That's why there are kind, decent, loving, compassionate,happy and peaceful Atheists, for example. They are the proof, just as Christians who are the same are proof that some Christian ideals are positive and beneficial.

Cults are the most extreme form of religion, as they completely isolate their followers and demonize everything and everyone outside of their little group, but unless religion becomes totally ecumenical, something it seems to resist with only a few notable exceptions, then it's not really that desirable except to the people inside of it. To outsiders who are often largely excluded from it's benefits (or who are only offered charity held hostage by sermonizing or conversion), it's simply an annoyance or at it's worst, a source of persecution or violence, exclusion, shunning,

free2beme

No. I am a true witch.

Ding

Perry wrote:

According to the Wt - Only the 144,000 have their sins forgiven!

How many of the WT's 144,000 actually believe their sins are forgiven?

WT "salvation" is always conditional, even for the "anointed."

trevor

It's difficult to say what a true Christian is because the goal posts keep moving - they are getting closer and closer together.

Soon anyone who can manage to force the ball between the posts using both hands and feet will be allowed to shout 'goal'. Jesus will have told them what to shout, of course.

mindmelda

I don't even think salvation is the focus of Jehovah's Witnesses, by their own admission. I had an annointed Witness tell me this once, and show me why he felt it was arrogant of anyone to think salvation was important.

The only thing that matters to Jehovah's Witnesses is the "vindication of Jehovah's name" and the Kingdom. That is their focus, not Christ, not salvation.

They are only Christian in the sense that they firmly believe that Christ has the same agenda and they follow him in vindication of Jehovah and his name.

But I remember a few Watchtower articles in the past that explained that salvation in the form of living into or being ressurected into the new system or resurrection to heaven is merely a by product of being a Witness of Jehovah, not the focus.

There is quite a bit of demonizing of the salvation doctrines of Christianity by JWs, just in case you hadn't noticed. LOL

The Finger

Being a true christian to me is being born again.

The wheat and the weeds will grow together until the harvest.

Ding

Finger,

You wrote:

Being a true christian to me is being born again.

To someone familiar only with WT doctrine, being "born again" means being one of the 144,000.

They believe a great crowd of other people are Christians without being "born again."

So I take you're not talking about the WTS' definitions.

Could you please explain what you mean by "being born again."

Are you a TRUE Christian?!?

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