The Gentile Times Reconsidered (page 17)

SweetBabyCheezits

*sigh*

Yeah, I keep thinking I need to find a time-waster that's more productive. Or fun.

miseryloveselders

Yeah, I keep thinking I need to find a time-waster that's more productive. Or fun.

You know what i think........there's only so much WT material to refute. Once you get past critical doctrines, the only thing left really is to live your life. Time to move on. What else is there past 607 vs 587, or the faithful and discreet slave, a true religion, yadda yadda.......? Nothing other than living your life.

jonathan dough

The devastated condition of Judah does not mean it existed in that state without a single inhabitant.

The Hebrew word for ‘devastated’ or ‘devastations’ is chorbah. The Hebrew and Aramaic Dictionary of the Old Testament by Dr. James Strong (1890) defines ‘chorbah’ as: “a place laid waste, ruin, wasted, desolation.” And while it is agreed that the degree of devastation, or chorbah, was severe, the Jehovah’s Witnesses, according to Setting the Record Straight at p. 15, contend that Judah, and by extension Jerusalem, “would be devastated so as to be without an inhabitant,” and that the concept of Judah’s devastation, or chorbah, of Jeremiah 25:11 did not apply to its condition at any time before its destruction.

In support they quote Jeremiah 6:7-8, 9:11, 4:23, 25, 4:27, 29b, 24:8, 10, Isaiah 6:11, 12 and Jeremiah 44:2,6., all of which correctly state that Jerusalem and/or Judah would exist without an inhabitant, or something similar. But nowhere in those verses does it say the uninhabited state would last seventy years. More importantly, they omit key verses which prove that Judah and Jerusalem were in fact inhabited during that time, and that chorbah does not by definition mean a devastated place that cannot be inhabited, or that the era preceding Jerusalem’s destruction was not in a devastated condition.

First, in quoting the original prophecy handed down by Moses the Watchtower Society omitted Leviticus 26:32 which refutes their argument.

After describing the conquest of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar, 2 Chronicles 36:20, 21 states: “Furthermore, he carried off those remaining from the sword captive to Babylon, and they came
to be servants to him and his sons until the royalty of Persia began to reign; to fulfill Jehovah’s word by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had paid off its sabbaths. All the days of lying desolated it kept sabbath, to fulfill seventy years.””—Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 1, p. 463.

The reference to the land paying off its sabbaths is a direct reference to Leviticus 26:32-35 which also should have been brought to the readers' attention.

32 And I, for my part, will lay the land desolate, and YOUR enemies who are dwelling in it will simply stare in amazement over it. 33 And YOU I shall scatter among the nations, and I will unsheathe a sword after YOU; and YOUR land must become a desolation, and YOUR cities will become a desolate ruin.
34 “‘At that time the land will pay off its sabbaths all the days of its lying desolated, while YOU are in the land of YOUR enemies. At that time the land will keep sabbath, as it must repay its sabbaths. 35 All the days of its lying desolated it will keep sabbath, for the reason that it did not keep sabbath during YOUR sabbaths when YOU were dwelling upon it.

Verse 32 teaches us that people, in this case Judah’s enemies, would dwell in the land during its devastated condition. In biblical times this often occurred as a natural consequence. Devastated places (chorbah) can be inhabited, and were.

Secondly,.... continued here: http://144000.110mb.com/607/i-5.html#J

palmtree67

It said:

I would have to see these tens of thousands of cuneiform tablets for myself.

And do you require the WTS to provide the actual cuneiform tablets that they quote from?

Black Sheep

I would have to see these tens of thousands of cuneiform tablets for myself.

Do you demand the same for the Bible or for anything you paste as evidence?

Are you going to be the hero and bail out my family? or are you going to wimp out on the extreeeeeemly teeeeeeny chance that trying to produce a tabulation of the king list will make you look like a fool?

palmtree67

** high fives Black Sheep **

villabolo

Spade:

"For example, look at what's happened since 1914 when Satan and his demons were ousted from heaven. Society has been degenerating ever since."

Yes, Spade. Those demons really dropped down to earth like meteors.

Bottom line, there has been no meaningful change in "degeneration", as you call it, when1914 is compared to previous history. This has all been argued in the very book you disdain. I've noticed that you have not brought up the HISTORICAL evidence that has been presented to counter the myth of 1914 being the nexus of something new.

Whether it be wars, disease, famine, etc. those have been worse in the past as far as the percentage of the world's population dieing. Example: the Bubonic plague epidemics and Tamerlane's genocides throughout Asia in the 14th century. When you get the TRUE casualty figures for both verified and find out the population of the world back then; do a simple calculation of the percentage of the populaton that died in the 14th century from those two causes alone. It will make the 20th century seem tame.

I bet you can't even start because you'll do some superficial research, particularly with the Bubonic/Pneumonic plague casualties. So let me give you a hint. The world's population dropped from 400 million, at the beginning of the Plague, to roughly 250 million by the end of the century. Don't forget tamerlane's contribution, which while being dwarfed by the Plague, is roughly equivalent to both WWI and WWII put together (PERCENTAGE WISE!).

I'm not even taking into account the 19th century, which while not as bad as the 14th, was equivalent to the 20th century as far as percentage of the world's population dieing from a wide variety of diseases, famines and wars.

Villabolo

Spade

The sign that indicates we're living in the “last days” is composite. It's only been in the 20th century that there was two World Wars and a global terrorist threat. It's only been in the 20th century that we've had the technology to "ruin the earth."

But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time for the dead to be judged, and to give [their] reward to your slaves the prophets and to the holy ones and to those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth.” Revelation 11:18

If the world was always free from the calamities described in Matthew 24:4-14 and 2 Timothy 3:1-7 that indicate we're living in the last days, there would be no need for divine intervention in the first place.

bohm

spade, first you threw in a red herring on phylogenetics, so i debunked it and you ran like hell. now it seem you making another red-herring argument...

how well do you think its going?

jay88

Spade-The signs that indicate we're living in the “last days” is composite. It's only been in the 20th century that there was two World Wars and a global terrorist threat. It's only been in the 20th century that we've had the technology to "ruin the earth.

We have the Complete genocide of the American Indians, it was the last days for them. Perhaps that was when JC threw Satan out.

The Gentile Times Reconsidered

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