The Gentile Times Reconsidered

by Spade 382 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  pirata

  Spade, did you read The Gentile Times Reconsidered? If you are interested in reading it, send me a PM.

  It presents a logical explanation to the 70 years, and that a 587BCE date for destruction of Jerusalem only conflicts with the Biblical 70 years if one insists on applying Jeremiah's prophecy to ONLY Jerusalem's destruction and lying desolate. But that's not the case. Jeremiah prohpecies that Judah, and the surrounding nations, would be in servitude to Babylon, a time period which started before Jerusalem's destruction:

  (Jeremiah 25:8-11) 8 “Therefore this is what Jehovah of armies has said, ‘“For the reason that YOU did not obey my words, 9 here I am sending and I will take all the families of the north,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “even [sending] to Neb?u?chad?rez′zar the king of Babylon, my servant, and I will bring them against this land and against its inhabitants and against all these nations round about; and I will devote them to destruction and make them an object of astonishment and something to whistle at and places devastated to time indefinite. 10 And I will destroy out of them the sound of exultation and the sound of rejoicing, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride, the sound of the hand mill and the light of the lamp. 11 And all this land must become a devastated place, an object of astonishment, and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years.”’

  With the date of Jerusalem's destruction at 587 BCE, what Zechariah wrote in about 519 BCE:

  (Zechariah 1:12) 12 So the angel of Jehovah answered and said: “O Jehovah of armies, how long will you yourself not show mercy to Jerusalem and to the cities of Judah, whom you have denounced these seventy years?”

  would be written about 70 years later, versus a destruction of Jerusalem in 607BCE, which would have made the angel's words in Zechariah 90 years after the destruction of Jerusalem. The 1972 "Paradise Restored" book (chapter 8) has an extension discussion of this and acknowledges, and proposes, an explanation to the 20 year discrepancy. It does not however mention that the 20 years could be cleared up by moving the destruction of Jerusalem to 587BCE and understanding Jeremiah's 70 year prophecy as the nations servitude to Babylon. This explanation makes Biblical history and secular history agree.
• 

  boyzone

  Yeah, thanks from me too MrMustard. I was gonna post COJ's response to Rolf Furuli but you beat me to it. Carl leaves no doubt that Furuli's research is deeply flawed.

  Cooeeee!!! Spade!!!! Where you at girl???

  If you really are interested in TRUTH then examine both sides, not just the WT side.
• 

  trebor

  Using the Bible along with the Watchtower Society’s own publications proves their teachings to be incorrect.

  When Jerusalem fell is documented in the Bible at 2 Kings 25:8-9:

  "And in the fifth month on the seventh [day] of the month, that is to say, the nineteenth year of King Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, Nebuzaradan the chief of the bodyguard, the servant of the king of Babylon, came to Jerusalem. And he proceeded to burn the house of Jehovah and the king's house and all the houses of Jerusalem; and the house of every great man he burned with fire."

  The nineteenth year of King Nebuchadnezzar rule is when Jerusalem fell.

  What year is the nineteenth year of King Nebuchadnezzar?

  This can be deduced with the aid of referencing two of the Watchtower Society’s publications. The first publication is Insight on the Scriptures. On page 457 in Volume 2 under ‘Nabonidus’ it states the following:

  "Last supreme monarch of the Babylonian Empire; father of Belshazzar. On the basis of cuneiform texts he is believed to have ruled some 17 years (556-539 B.C.E.). He was given to literature, art, and religion."

  The second reference, the Watchtower Society's publication Babylon the Great Has Fallen - God's Kingdom Rules on page 184 it states:

  "After reigning but two years King Evil-Merodach was murdered by his brother-in-law Neriglissar. According to the inscriptions that have been found, this usurper of the throne spent most of his time in building operations and reigned four years. When he died, his son Labashi-Marduk, though not yet of age, succeeded him. He was a vicious boy, and within nine months he had his throat cut by an assassin. Nabonidus, who had served as Governor of Babylon and who had been Nebuchadnezzar's favorite son-in-law, now took the throne and had a fairly glorious reign till Babylon fell in 539 B.C."

  Take into consideration along with the above information that both Historical data and the Watchtower Society agree that Nebuchadnezzar ruled for a period of 43 years...

  Insight on the Scriptures, page 480 in Volume 2 under ‘Nebuchadnezzar’:

  "Nebuchadnezzar ruled as king for 43 years"

  Now let’s gather the above information...

  539 B.C. = Year Babylon Fell

  Prior to the fall of Babylon, the history of its rulership is as follows:

  17 years = Rulership of Nabonidus

  1 year (9 months) = Rulership of Labashi-Marduk

  4 years = Rulership of Neriglissar

  2 years = Rulership of Evil-Merodach

  43 years = Rulership of Nebuchadnezzar

  Doing the math with the above facts:

  539 + 17 + 1 +4 + 2 + 43 = 606

  NOTE: We add here because we are tracing back the years of rulership. During B.C. years to go back in history you add years, to go forward in history you subtract years.

  Therefore, 606 B.C. would be the year Nebuchadnezzar starts to rule.

  Going back to our scripture in 2 Kings 25: 8, 9, it was during Nebuchadnezzar’s 19th year that Jerusalem fell.

  Doing that math:

  606 - 19 = 587

  NOTE: We subtract here because time is progressing during Nebuchadnezzar’s reign. The years decrease not increase, as we are calculating B.C. years and not A.D. years.

  From the above, 587 B.C. would be the year Jerusalem fell.

  It’s plain to see that simply by using two of the Watchtower Society’s own publications along with two verses from the Bible, one can prove the teaching of Jerusalem fallen on 607 B.C. which Jehovah’s Witnesses are taught to be accurate by the Watchtower Society is a lie. It is a teaching to support their doctrine and interpretation of scripture.
• 

  garyneal

  Spade, why don't you contact scholar (via PM). He too defends the 607 BCE chonology and he at least doesn't copy and paste.

  Otherwise, this whole thread is a waste of time. *sigh*
• 

  miseryloveselders

  Spade, why don't you contact scholar (via PM). He too defends the 607 BCE chonology and he at least doesn't copy and paste.

  Otherwise, this whole thread is a waste of time. *sigh*

  You've gotta respect Scholar, even if you don't agree with him. I like that he has a sense of humor about it all too, mentioning "the celebrated WT scholars." Probably a cool dude outside of here.
• 

  AnnOMaly

  Thanks for posting those links MeanMrMustard - you beat me to it too And GTR4 was reviewed in the 2005/2006 (how time flies!) edition of Archiv für Orientforschung.
• 

  AnnOMaly

  Hope this works ...

  
• 

  OUTLAW

  

  Some sources have been challenged, but no one has challenged the dated contracts

  and other business documents exhibited by Rolf Furuli.....Spade/AliceInWonderLand

  Rolf Furuli is a Jehovah`s Witness..LOL!!..

  There is no way he can publish anything that does not agree with the WBT$,without being DF`d..

  Rolf Furuli`s expertise is in Linguistics,not Ancient History..Furuli`s WBT$ biased,uneducated opinion,means nothing..

  Maybe you get the guy who drives the Ice-Cream Truck in your neighbourhood..To write his support of 607BCE,so you post it on JWN..

  It would have as much value as the crap Furuli writes..

  607 BCE is Correct..Because..

  "I`m the..

  

  

  ........................... ...OUTLAW
• 

  MeanMrMustard

  @AnnOMaly:

  Wow, it was that long ago? Man! Glad you had the article handy!

  MeanMrMustard
• 

  Ding

  Jonsson was a JW for 20 years and was serving as an elder in his native Sweden.

  Some householder challenged him to prove the 607 BCE date, so he set out to do so.

  When he discovered that the date was wrong, he documented his evidence and set it to Bethel, assuming that the leaders of the WTS were interested in the truth and in correcting any errors

  First, they ignored him.

  When he kept asking for some response, they disfellowshipped him.

  Ray Franz wrote the Chronology section of the "Aid to Bible Understanding" book.

  In Crisis of Conscience, he wrote, "We found nothing in support of 607 BCE... In the end it became evident that it would have taken a virtual conspiracy on the part of the ancient scribes -- with no conceivable motive for doing so -- to misrepresent the facts if, indeed, our figure was to be the right one... The arguments I presented were honest ones, but I know their intent was to uphold a date for which there was no historical support."

  So what did the WTS do in the face of this evidence?

  They disfellowshipped the men who showed it to them.