Sorry, when I say others I mean the members of the cong. It's ok to let the Elders know you have sincere doubts so that they can help you
Apostasy and Df question
by jam 31 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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LongHairGal
ALFRED:
You certainly are right about how there is no confidentiality in this religion. I knew this long ago and was horrified at the gossip I heard about people's intimate problems just hashed around the hall. I knew that anything I ever told them would get out. Can you imagine going to the elders with a 'personal' problem or temptation and these idiots talking about it at their next gathering?? So, I knew better and kept my mouth shut.
At least in the Catholic church a priest is a priest for life generally speaking, and he usually gossips to other priests only. Not so in the JW religion. An elder can step down or be removed. He is also not bound legally (like an attorney or doctor). So, he feels free to shoot his mouth off or tell his wife who will get on the phone and tell all her friends - who will tell other friends and so on. Anybody who goes to the elders, with anything, is at the mercy of their discretion, assuming they have any.
From what I have seen, your 'secrets' and privacy in the JW religion are a joke.
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villabolo
A) what grounds could it be DF (remerber he only voice his concern
to his wife)?
Yes, his wife can turn him in for anything whatsoever.
B) If he is DF, when the letter is read about is DF, what will they
announce. (conduct unbefitting A Christian)?
My understanding is that they currently say, in their announcement, that so-an-so is no longer a Jehovah's Witness.
C) The letter that is sent too HQ, what reason will be given
for his DF?
What BluesBrother said: Apostacy.
D) Can one be DF for doubt?
BluesBrother: However, I have read plenty of experiences on here about people who only raised the point with elders in response to their questions, but judged guilty of Apostasy.
I was disfelowshipped simply for questioning something without spreading it around. I did speak to an elder about my concerns. My appeal committee quoted a scripture about creating sects. When I told them that I had done no such thing they responded by saying: "You are a sect of one".
Villabolo
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Stargater
Jehovah's Witnesses as an organization has shown remarkable resiliancy over the years. They rely on the short term memories of their followers and can have members actually believing they have said "A" all the time when in fact they've said "B" and "C" in the past. As long as no one checks on them, they hold all the cards. By taking a number of positions in the past, it becomes simple to reference them to their own advantage. The structure is surprisingly immune to outside contamination. They know they're going to lose a few, but they're acceptable losses.
The main body is well insulated from outsiders. No contact with the outside community. No non-JW friends, no associations. Even if you're disfellowshipped, you are stuck between a society that rejects you and another society that you must reject. It's brilliant. Family members and friends will listen to your doubts, offer heartfelt advice, then turn you over to the elders to defray any doubts about their own loyalty. Then you're expected to forgive them. After all, they don't want to be the enemies of Jehovah.
You're also expected not to read another other religious material. Comparative religion courses are out and few, if any, ever get to advanced ancient scripture degrees. If they do, they usually won't stay. Once they find out how ridiculous their Bible translations are, it doesn't take long to see the real, actual "truth." There are no JW scholars with advanced degrees in ancient Greek, Hebrew and other languages. I've had members into my home and had them read scriptures out of their Bibles I couldn't even recognize! The meanings are often so blatantly rendered as to be mind boggling.
There's no bridge to the outside world. Members are to teach and not to be taught. Even younger members with no experience are expected to teach what's in the literature and not listen to any opposing ideas.
Like I said, it's brilliantly devised. If you stay in the movement (for convenience), do yourself a favor and claim "anointed" status. Don't question anything and take on an air of aloofness. Partake of the emblems and pretend to make inspired utterances. You can actually benefit from it, all the while knowing it's not true. There are no two classes--there's only one. But if you're going to stick with the program, take advantage of the structure. All the leaders do! If you play your cards right, you may actually develop a reputation as one of the anointed, and others will watch you partake of the emblems with envy. Or you can bail out and find another church. But then you'll be an apostate and an enemy of God and the church. Or...you can continue as you are and not rock the boat.
Either way, the church will endure because people are bred to be led. Others are born to lead, and they'll always take advantage of the former.
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InterestedOne
Sorry to be OT, but Stargater: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolf_Furuli
(not that that means JW's are credible, and I don't know how his work is viewed in the scholarly community. Just an FYI)
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Sapphy
The killer question alwas seems to be 'do you believe the WTS is god's spirit directed organisation'?
What if someone was to say something like 'I have lost my faith in god and the bible'?
Is loss of faith a judicial matter?
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yourmomma
it is a myth that in order to be DF'd you have to tell others. The elder in this example is subject to being DF'd for apostacy.
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bennyk
The elders question him, he remains firm, he tell the Brothers, I have
not question the society teaching in the past but this new change
I can not except.
When the Elders interrogate him regarding his concern(s), he will give reasons for not accepting the new teaching.
His reasoning with the other Elders can be construed as attempting to "[spread] (stubbornly hold to and speak about) teachings contrary to Bible Truth as taught by Jehovah's Witnesses".
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wasblind
When a man can't confide in his wife, that's a low down dirty shame
and it's pitiful, that a man could be punished for expressing doubt
and yet become the victim of rumors himself, very rarely if at all anyone
is punished for spreading lies within the cong, especially on a Df'ed or DA'ed
member
And another thing, If an Elders wife really wanted to know somethin', all she have to do is hold out on the goodies and he'll sing like a canary. I don't care how Christian a sister claim to be, any woman with good sense will use that as leverage on occassion
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InterestedOne
The scenario in the OP is interesting. The man could say "This new doctrine is not something I signed up for. I made my original decision and commitment based on the previous doctrine. Now the leaders switched something on me. That's not fair." I wonder if the elders would see his point and empathize with his predicament. I think the categories of DF or DA are too harsh for someone in that situation. They should have a category for old-timers who still believe what they signed up for - like grandfather laws for building codes - if the building was built according to the old code, it can still pass inspection, but any new buildings have to follow the new code. LOL :)