Apostasy and Df question (page 3)

wasblind

" I wonder if the elders would see his point and empathize with his predicament."

No way Interested one,

they can't have folks questioning things, you either believe or pay the price for not believeing

they gotta keep all that free labor in line

Greetings, InterestedOne. Rolf Furuli holds a Master of Arts degree, which he received in 1995. I would be most interested in reading his The Role of Theology and Bias in Bible Translation with a special look at the New World Translation of Jehovah's Witnesses. Unfortunately, it sells on Amazon for sixty dollars. He also is a proponent of the theory that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 B.C. rather than 586 B.C.

Based on his work and the years of his study, I suspect he started out to defend the New World Translation rather than doing an objective work. And though I don't usually stand on degrees as the sum of a person's education, I do find certain things suspect. If a scholar comes along and promotes 1) Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 B.C., 2) the NWT is an accurate rendition of the Bible, and 3) Jesus was executed on a torture stake, and if that scholar is a J.W., then I am led to suspect that he's following an agenda. All three are minority views. The chances that an objective scholar would come to all three of these opinions on his own is a bit mind-boggling. I know of no reputable scholars of ancient scripture who aren't Jehovah's Witnesses who think the NWT is a decent translation. And the evidence that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 B.C. is based on Bible mathematical history, not secular history (which is more accurate). Without going into too much detail, the biblical texts were tampered with. The Bible, for example, points to Nebuchadnezzar being driven mad for seven years when secular history points to it being Nabonidus.

One scholar writes: "The Babylonian accounts do not mention that Nebuchadnezzar became mad. But it is well known that Nabonidus did. Records kept by the Babylonian priests confirm Nabonidus’s temporary madness in the wilderness of Tema." This has always puzzled Old Testament scholars, and it's now widely believed that someone swapped the name of the more famous Nebuchadnezzar for Nabonidus. If one uses the Bible over historical secular texts (including one by Nabonidus' mother), then the dates become hopelessly jumbled. The same scholar mentioned above goes on to state: "The Dead Sea scrolls found at Qumran in 1948 confirm that Nabonidus, not Nebuchadnezzar, was the mad king. A fragmentary document titled The Prayer of Nabonidus tells of a king NBNY (Hebrew uses no vowels) who, while at Tema, was diseased by the God of Israel. A Jewish adviser (no doubt Daniel) counsels him to honor God, reminding him, 'Thou has been smitten with this noisesome fever … for seven years because thou hast been praying to gods of silver and stone, which gods are but stock and stone, mere clay.'" (Theodore H. Gaster, The Dead Sea Scriptures, 3d ed., Garden City, N.Y.: Anchor Press/ Doubleday, 1976, p. 537.) Gaster is one of the more widely recognized writers on the Dead Sea Scrolls, BTW.

I mean no disrespect to Rolf Furuli, but he's wrong on all three points, and no doubt more, and I suspect it's mostly because he's chasing an agenda.

.

diamondiiz

It also depends on elders, and a lot depends on elders. If you have an asshole elder who doesn't like you, anything you do will be used against you and they will be more than happy to make your like miserable.

My story was: I told my wife that I was done with wts and she told an elder they should talk to me. They came, I told them that I'm investigating wts doctrine, I told them I didn't believe in 1914, that Russell taught 1874, about the pyramid which the PO never heard of before, the other elder said it's sold light. I told them about UN association, PO never heard of it the other dummy said it had to do with library card. I brought forth abuse cases, the PO never herd of this, the other dismissed it as just few bad apples not like catholics.... At that time I still went to the Memorial and that was the last meeting I attended until I officially DA myself in June or July.

So basically, they knew I didn't believe wts dogma and I wasn't df. I don't remember what I answered to the question as to If I believed wts was God's org.

Stargater

So what did your wife say when you told her that?

Are you divorced because of that or did she follow you?

diamondiiz

She was upset at the time. I was quite persistant about wts being wrong about their teaching and told her about 607BC being wrong and since 607 was a lie, 1914 couldn't be Jesus return and FDS couldn't be chosen in 1919.

In time she read COC and Gentile Times Roconsidered and after reading GTR, she realized that there was a lot of proof for 587 and that GB lied about 607. She's done with wts, and only goes to a meeting when she visits her mother which I'm not too happy about but whatever, that only occurs once a year when she goes home so no big deal. I'll see if she goes to the memorial this year but I doubt it which would be her first time in her life as she's a born in and her entire family are dubs. I'm lucky she is smart enough to reason and see through BS when facts are presented, but it did take time for her to actually get enough courage to read both books.

nicolaou

Perry; Jehovah's Witnesses never did know God. They know the org who claims to know God.

Nicolaou; No Christian ever really knew God. They only know the book that claims to reveal God.

See, I can be rude, blinkered and patronising too.

Cold Steel

History is so resolute about the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians that I did a quick check on Google. I thought I finally had an interesting exchange, so I did a couple of clicks only to find that the author of the pro-607 B.C. article began using "Jehovah" references and using BCE dates, which is before common era, a term I believe is widely used by the JWs. It soon became apparent that he was either a JW or a Seventh Day Adventist.

Rolf Furuli isn't even a Ph D, so I don't know how much of an authority he's supposed to be, but if the JWs can't drag out anyone with more credentials than him, it will be unimpressive. Are there any other well known authorities, and is Furuli widely known among the Society?

kimbo

[over lapping generations]

could an intelligent person believe this ?

doofdaddy

This basically happened to me when the "generation" shifted in the late 90's. I voiced my concerns (to the elders privately) that there had been a 180 degree turn in belief. I received a visit from two elders. I showed them the new belief in the wt, then highlighted articles from the jw CD. The turning point was when the older respected (by me) elder gave no argument but said "You better be careful.You are sounding like an apostate." I left and I assume was df for apostacy (I don't know, as I refused to speak to them after that disappointment). I wonder if he thought of me when the wt article came out a year or so later, confirming my research...

jam

I was thinking last nite my thoughts when I was A elder and

someone confined in me his doubts. I can only recall two occasion.

The first I wasn,t involved in the meeting with the elders, I knew

the brother and he was A elder(1976). I was told by another elder

that was on the commitee, the brother was talking craziness,. they felt

he was having A nervous breakdown, he spoke about the fell prophecy

of 1975, the dates in the past and etc. It was A heated meeting. He stormed

out of the meeting and never came back, he became A Baptist minster.

OK, I remerber thinking the brother lost it, he had A mental problem.

The second time , a close friend and A elder. The problem in this case

the brother was DF for adultery so the things he told me did not carry

any weight. He had read C of C...If I had only investigated the things

he told me I would have been out A lot sooner. Mad Sweeney said it,

if you have doubts keep it to your self.

Apostasy and Df question

Share this