Happy JW Marriages the Impossible Dream?

by IslandWoman 43 Replies latest social family

battman

Dear Golden Golpher,
Sounds exactly like my situation. WOW that
hurts!!!! All you other poster are also just great.
It helps with the healing process to put a finger
on what the hell really happened.
Yikes,
Battman
a "Badger" fan
amac

My husband and I have just recently come to terms with this. We have seen that what the Watchtower taught us to expect from ourselves and from one another was not real, it was a fantasy.
I disagree with this. My parents have been married for over 30 years now. If it wasn't for becoming a JW, my dad would have still been a drugee/alcoholic, professional athlete cheating on my mom and quickly ending in divorce. It is with the help of the WT that he has become a good husband and my mom a good wife. That was about 29 years ago and they are as happy as newlyweds still.
In my own experience, I appreciate the information the WT has put out on husband/wife relationships. Although, I have only been married 8 years, I still feel the positive impact.
I am not foolish enough to think that happy marriages are exclusive to JWs, but for many, this organization has saved their marriages and their lives.
Please be specific to these negative high expectations that the WT imposes on a married couple.
LDH

LOL CASEY777 might I suggest you lock your email before you come in here spouting pro JW rhetoric? (and weak proJW rhetoric, at that!)
I would also suggest that if you don't know how to make your marriage work WITHOUT religion you are a weak minded person.
It's EASY to be married to someone when you think, "Well all of your faults will be gone in the New System."
Try that same thing when the reality is" "Yes even with all of your faults I still love you knowing that they will NEVER change."
Whatever.
You must be a sheltered little bunny, because I know *TONS* of "worldly" couples who have been married for DECADES without the aid of the WBTS.
Lisa
Joyzabel

IW, great post. I agree with you totally. We were shuffling through roles instead of living our lives. Now for the catching up that needs to be done with our lives and our relationships.
LDH, RIGHT ON. People’s whose eyes are blinded by an organization will only see what they want to see. Not the rest of the world struggling and living their lives married for decades without an organization to interfere.
Amac, there are many, many other organizations that can spout “success” stories like your parent’s, it doesn’t make them right, does it. You are too involved with the wtbts obedience that you can’t see what you’re saying.
All I can say is that my marriage and family life is so much better now that I have freedom that no one would understand it unless they have been through it themselves.
j2bf
Xander

I am not foolish enough to think that happy marriages are exclusive to JWs, but for many, this organization has saved their marriages and their lives.
No, it didn't. People changing might have 'saved the marriage' - but they obviously wanted to, and the JWs just gave them the reason. Any religion would have done just as well, or, indeed, no religion and a better upbringing would have done them better.
Please be specific to these negative high expectations that the WT imposes on a married couple.
Where to start?
- Firstly, the 'we are no part of the world' expectations the WT heaps on ALL witnesses is pretty unbearable - as demonstrated by their own hypocrasy on the matter.
- Wife should be submissive to husband (she's a 'weaker vessel', you know)
- 'god' (meaning the WT org) should be a major factor in decisions the couple makes
- Alotting time for personal study AND family study AND meetings AND field service means almost no REAL time spent with the husband and wife actually talking about their FEELINGS. No 'real' communication = unsuccessful marriage. NOTE: that doesn't mean divorce. It means a marriage when both parties are not as happy as they could be.
I could go on and on, but I suspect you're not really interested.
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)
A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana
amac

Joy -
Amac, there are many, many other organizations that can spout “success” stories like your parent’s, it doesn’t make them right, does it. You are too involved with the wtbts obedience that you can’t see what you’re saying.
Joy, you know nothing about me, so you should probably avoid saying things like your last sentence. You completely missed my point. I acknowledged that there are happy marriages outside of JWs. This thread was started saying that the WT advice for married couples has a negative impact. I disagree with that as it has been a help to many people.
Xander -
No, it didn't. People changing might have 'saved the marriage' - but they obviously wanted to, and the JWs just gave them the reason.
If JWs gave them the reason, then they helped, didn't they? What you are saying is similar to saying that AA doesn't help thousands of Alcoholics because the Alcoholics had to want to change and AA just helped by giving them reasons.
Any religion would have done just as well, or, indeed, no religion and a better upbringing would have done them better.
Well since you can't go back in time to change the upbringing, that's out of the question. And any religion would have done just as well? I don't know about that, in my father's case, he was already a practicing Catholic, but that didn't seem to help.
I am not saying that Catholics can't have happy marriages, or that their Church doesn't promote happy marriages, all I am saying is that the advice by the WT for marriages and families has seemed to help everyone that I have seen apply it as opposed to this thread which is implying that the WT's advice in these areas is detrimental.
Firstly, the 'we are no part of the world' expectations the WT heaps on ALL witnesses is pretty unbearable - as demonstrated by their own hypocrasy on the matter.
Please explain how a desire to be part of the world and not being able to breaks a marriage up or is at least detrimental to the marriage.
Wife should be submissive to husband (she's a 'weaker vessel', you know)
Again, please explain how this advice (coupled with the advice for how husbands are told to treat their wives) is detrimental.
'god' (meaning the WT org) should be a major factor in decisions the couple makes
same thing
Alotting time for personal study AND family study AND meetings AND field service means almost no REAL time spent with the husband and wife actually talking about their FEELINGS.
This is wrong as the WT DOES encourage an open communication of feelings between marriage mates. There are plenty of couples who do all of the things listed above and still have an open line of communication on their feelings. When my wife and I were still active we were regular pioneers and did all the above and probably spent more time talking about our feelings then than we do now (now that we have children, it takes a little away from the one on one relationship.)
The reason why I defend the WT so much is that many people that have come to disagree with their teachings can't help but fault everything about them and blame them for everything that went wrong in their life. That is just as blind and biased as following every word the WT says.
Introspection

The problem with this "direction" is that you are adhering to some external standard rather than working with people, with their hearts and minds. Just because you read some nice sounding stuff and answered questions pointing to an answer planted in the paragraph it doesn't mean your mind REALLY change in any way, it just means you filled it with some new stuff.
Whether you successfully program a person is irrelevant. You might say the programming is good behavior, but it's still programming. The thing the question and answer format supposedly helps you do is to come to the conclusion yourself, but it's really rather like a straw man argument since they basically told you what the answer is, and in any given "study" session you are eventually told what the "right" answer is, if you answer any other way.
In fact, I would say it's pretty much like idolatry. You have this fixed image of how you should behave, regardless of whether it has to do with marriage or whatever. This may sound strange, but as we know idolatry isn't limited to literal graven images, it could be with other things and ways of behavior. I say that the whole Leave it to Beaver (or if you like, the Brady Bunch) era TV family is just another idol, and you can add the witness family model too, just as they portray it at the convention dramas.
The thing is, you might actually have a nice model family sometimes, but because it is behaviorally based rather than coming from an open mind and heart, it's rather like a literal model, you might as well have a plastic model of an airplane instead of the actual airplane. Even if it does "work", it's just imitating the real thing. There's no life to it. So it is the same with individuals, and is it any surprise when the relationship is between two individuals like that?
Here's a side point. I don't want to hijack this thread or anything, but it relates in that it has to do with human relationships. How are witnesses doing with informal witnessing these days? My guess is it's as miserable as ever. We can get into little specifics here, but the key problem is it does not come naturally. If it's coming from the heart, one free of fear, then you'll just naturally talk about it. But I've found this to be fairly rare, and I think that just goes to show how utterly fake the whole thing is. You can get people to act a certain way, but that's all it is, an act.
amac

Introspection -
You have some valid points, but I think it is absurd to assume that the entire JW community is putting on an "act." I'm sure many are, but there are probably just as many who truly desire to please God, and their families.
And of course it is "idolatry", although that is not a good descriptive, but I understand what your point is. We all are influenced by something or someone, whether you follow Ayn Rand or the Bible. I see nothing wrong with people following the Bible, or Leave it to Beaver for that matter.
Xander

this thread was started saying that the WT advice for married couples has a negative impact
Single success stories are nice, but if the OVERALL affect of the WT advice results in 'failure' (either divorce or unhappy marriages), then the policy is a failure, and should be ceased.
then they helped, didn't they
OK, I notice you did say the WT only 'helped' - I had read your above post to mean that the WT was the reason, which was the point I was argueing.
he was already a practicing Catholic, but that didn't seem to help
No offense intended, but he obviously wasn't a very good Catholic then, their policies on marriage are just as strict as the society's.
help everyone that I have seen
How many marriages have you been in? 1? Right. The problem with the society's solution is that is makes the marriage LOOK like a success to everyone but whose in it. Indeed, the participants in the marriage will tell their closest friends only how happy they are. In fact, they probably continually tell THEMSELVES how happy they are. "Really, I'm happy". "This is a godly marriage, and that brings me peace". "I'm supposed to be filled with joy, and I am". "A three-fold cord can't easily be broken, and so our marriage is strong". While looking into a mirror trying to force a smile.
Maybe you DO have a happy marriage applying WT counsel. Good for you. I have found in my travels, though, it is the exception rather than the rule.
a desire to be part of the world and not being able to
I'm just saying that adds to day to day stress for each individual. That they are married then compounds the problem. Want to go see a movie together? Better make sure you don't stumble anyone. What if the wife REALLY wants to see it? But, the husband is a little concerned about its content stumbling someone if they saw them.
Just a small example of the type of tension it creates that is simply not a concern if you aren't a witness.
please explain how this advice (coupled with the advice for how husbands are told to treat their wives) is detrimental.
I'm sorry, this is just idiotic. Why don't you ask a women, any women, why she has a problem with the concept of her being inferior to men and needing to be submissive.
This is wrong as the WT DOES encourage an open communication of feelings between marriage mates
Yes, they say that on paper. But, then, they proceed to schedule away every free moment of your life. I'm sure you've heard the parts: "Everyone has the same 168 hours a week. If you sleep 8 hours a day, that leaves 112. The, if you work 40, that leaves 72...blahblahblah" as they detail how much time should be spent on personal study, ministry, meetings, etc.
Ever once here an elder EVER mention time to sit down and have a nice dinner, and NOT TALK ABOUT RELIGION or spirituality? Just thoughts, goals, feelings?
Didn't happen, did it?
everything about them and blame them for everything that went wrong in their life
No one is doing that. I'm just arguing that, overall, if their meddling in personal relationships is an overall failure, they should STOP DOING IT.
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)
A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana
Joyzabel

Amac,
I think its great that you are even here at this board to begin with. You must have an inquiring mind or you wouldn’t be looking.
The example of your parents is commendable that their marriage was helped. But that is just one example.
From my experience of being raised a jw and living it for many, many years, I see what effect the wtbts has had on marriages, mine included. As IW pointed out and Intro, marriages in the Borg are programmed; they don’t deal with feelings or emotions. They set a high standard that cannot be obtained, thus leaving many to carry around the burden of guilt that it is one more thing they can’t do right.
I have a brother and a sister whose marriage is just in word only. They and their spouses don’t share the same bedroom and hardly talk to each other. What are they waiting for to help their marriage, the new system? They are not even trying to get help, especially not help outside the Borg on their relationships. How sad. The programming that takes place within the Borg is subtle and very destructive. I can’t even discuss with them what’s going on because they would rather live “busy” lives, meetings, service, and study than to take the time to look at how they are really living.
I agree with you Amac, that there are many good people in the wtbts. Just like there are many good people everywhere is the world. No one religion or lack of religion has the exclusive rights to happiness. Claiming that they do and ignoring facts is cult-like, in my opinion. Of course, its only one opinion but it just what I have lived and observed.
Take the time, while you and everyone that is lurking here, to really look at yourself. Being honest with yourself and what you believe is the beginning of freedom not the parroting of someone else’s beliefs and actions.

Happy JW Marriages the Impossible Dream?

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