Happy JW Marriages the Impossible Dream?

by IslandWoman 43 Replies latest social family

  • detective
    detective

    Amac writes:

    I can effectively say that the teaching of the WT is the reason my parents have a happy marriage. If he had gone to another religion, he may not have agreed with their doctrinal beliefs and woudn't have followed any of their advice. Since he became a JW, he did follow their teachings and what they taught him about marriage was a benefit.

    If he had gone to another a religion he MAY not have agreed with their doctrinal beliefs and wouldn't have followed any of their advice.

    We can only theorize what he might or might not have done had he joined another religion, right? We don't know what effect joining another religion might have had on his because he didn't join any other religion, he joined the witnesses. It's possible that joining {insert religious group of choice here} could have helped his marriage. We don't know, do we?

    Sounds like they are not following the advice of the WT and the Bible.
    What unique advice does the WT offer on marriages that isn't available elsewhere? Isn't the advice of the WT to follow the bible or is there some other fantastic marriage-fixin' remedy that the WT has cooked up? Please explain what UNIQUE advice has been offered by the WT?

    "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church" (1 Corinthians 14:34-35).

    The WT must have skipped over this in the bible?

  • amac
    amac

    LDH -

    PLEASE, let's not get into a dispute about the value of a millenia-old book in today's world.

    Just to clarify, that was not the point of my statement. Rather, it was that since JW are a bible based religion, we would expect them to follow the Bible. Whether or not the Bible is worth following is a completely different topic and not relevant to this thread (well maybe a little.)

    Detective -
    I'm tired of arguing this on multiple fronts, so here is an abbreviated reply.

    We can only theorize what he might or might not have done had he joined another religion, right? We don't know what effect joining another religion might have had on his because he didn't join any other religion, he joined the witnesses. It's possible that joining {insert religious group of choice here} could have helped his marriage. We don't know, do we?
    Correct, but you are not following the point. The point was the JW religion DID work for them and DID help them. That, in its simplest form, is my point.

    What unique advice does the WT offer on marriages that isn't available elsewhere? Isn't the advice of the WT to follow the bible or is there some other fantastic marriage-fixin' remedy that the WT has cooked up? Please explain what UNIQUE advice has been offered by the WT?
    Their advice is not unique. It is from the Bible and expounded upon. The trick is, it is available and helpful. As opposed to this thread which seems to imply that the WT counsel for married folk is detremental to their marriage.
  • Balsam
    Balsam

    I briefly flashed by this discussion, and got stuck here. Let me share my experience. Perhaps it will give a different thought to all the discussion here:

    I was 20 yrs old and newly married. I hated being married to my husband he and I both were cruel to each other. I had married him on the rebound after my Lost Love from High School had joined the Navy back in 1968 and went off to the Vietnam war. I had known my husband off and on for about 3 years. I don't believe we ever loved each other when we married but felt that somehow we were suppose to get married just because. So in 1970 we did. And it was disastrous. I was involved in occult practices, he into football, basketball, and sports of all kinds usually on TV. I wanted to divorce him and planned on leaving him.

    Well one day he begins talking of JW's, he worked with someone who had studied with them but never got baptized. He got us a bible and a "Truth that Leads to Everlasting life" book. We both read the book, and since we were not involved in a religion at the time, the book impressed us. We made drastic changes. I quit the occult, he quit all the sports stuff. We also saw that perhaps they could teach us how to be married, and like each other. We started studying with a very nice ideal couple. Studied for 8 months, we cleaned up our act and worked on showing each other consideration. Though it was nothing more than going through the motions, eventually it began to feel better, and both of us felt happier. And we had found a common goal serving as JW's. We picked up and moved where the need was great, hoping to have me pioneer. Actually I always enjoyed field service, I loved people.

    For 7 year our life was pleasant. The feelings of perhaps not being 100% emotionally there for each other was put on the back burner. We rarely emotionally made connection on anykind of loving level. We were going through the motions, and for then that wasn't bad, just not entirely fulfilling. We had been married by then 10 years.

    Then a problem arose. My husband who was by then an Elder, had developed a strong feeling of love for the wife of a couple in the cong. we were close friends with. We were close and did lots of things together. We even went to clubs sometimes to dance and a pleasant evening. All ok, and not interacting with worldly people only with each other. We all felt spiritually balanced. I could in time sense the connection between my friend and my husband. I can't say I felt jealous, but more betrayed by them both. They were not suppose to allow their feelings expression. Wasn't the heart wicked? It ended up with them almost engaging in adultery. My husband went to the Elders and confessed. I knew in my heart this was not going to be repairable. But we stayed together. He and she were publicly reproved. She remained with her husband. Then my husband started smoking, not going to meetings. He said he was in love with her and it all was unbearable. He was disfellowshipped. He became involved with girls at work sexually. Again he confessed to me, I talked to the Elders, and the encouraged me to remain with him, as God hates divorcing. That was 1982. We stayed together and I kept going to meetings, trying to live with a man who didn't love me but because of his believes remained with me too. Both of us being strongly influenced to keep the marriage intact, regardless of the hurt it caused. He falls in love with someone else, we separate, she ends up killing herself. I being his loyal friend and sister felt sorry for him. I had hoped he would just be with her and then I would be free too. But with her dead, he depressed and suicidal, I went back to him when I became pregnant with our first child after 13 yrs of marriage.

    We worked very hard trying to go through the same motions we did in the beginning of showing love for each other neither of us felt. After our 2nd son was born he was reinstated just before our 2nd son was born. We had in time 3 sons. He again got involved with a girl at work. His misery again so evident, but no adultery this time and he broke it off. He worked so hard to love me and he couldn't.

    So after the last instance. I realized I was tired of beating my head against the wall, and I told him when our sons were grown I would leave him. He said nothing. He didn't try to change my mind. That was around 1993 and was at the time caring for both my elderly parents and our three very young children. I was busy and put my needs and cares away to be dealt with at a later date. In 1998 my mother died, my children were bigger now. My mother a witness, had told me not to remain in an unhappy marriage, that life was too short before she died. My misery apparent to her. My husband had come to hate my gained weight from 3 pregnancies, constant negative comments about me. The emotional abused grew more intense. I know he felt as trapped as I did but he wouldn't say it. I came to feel the WTS had locked us together in a dance I hated. I began not bear the idea that I would be going into the New System with this man who come to dislike me so much. I wanted to live alone, and have no pressures or feelings of hatred directed at me day in and day out. Our WTS teachings was failing us and we didn't know what to do. Jehovah was no comfort, and my prayers for endurance did not seem to help. I felt abandon by my God.

    It was in 1999 my Lost Love from high school came back into my life through Classmates.com. We had not seen or heard from each other in 30 years. The love we had, that special chemistry we had was still there. How could that be after 30 years? After talking to him viva the internet and phone we realized we wanted to spend what ever years we had left in live being together. I told my husband 1 1/2 years before I left him that I was going to leave him and be with my Lost Love. He laughed, he said I wouldn't. He didn't believe me.

    Again 6 months before I left I told him I was leaving, still he didn't believe I could do it. He did have me talk to Elders, and they were sympathetic, but said I must stay with my husband that he loved God. I told them I could not. They explained if I left with this man I would be disfellowshipped. I said I knew that. My husband did work on being kinder during that time, at the direction of the Elders. It did not change my mind. He even insisted in talking to my Lost Love, thinking if he did he would go away. He implied when he talked to him that I was living in a fantasy world, and that I was not quite right in the head. It angered my Lost Love and he told my husband he loved me now, and had always loved me, and nothing could change that. My husband was angry. And I was angrier still at him making me out to be mentally sick. Telling me how I was turning my back on Jehovah's direction. I told him that direction was not working anymore, and hadn't in 18 years.

    Then my 15 year old son was killed in an auto accident when he was going out with friends from the KH after the meeting. I wanted to die, never have I known such physical pain and heartache. But my Lost Love called me several times daily , and his soothing love kept me from just killing myself. Plus I had my other two sons to be there for. I knew then I could endure my life with my husband no longer. I had planned on leaving when my youngest one was graduating from high school, 6 years from then. My LL and I could wait. But having my son die, changed the level of tolerance for the situation. 4 months later I left my husband. I told him at the District convention of 2001. He still didn't believe I could do this to Jehovah. I offered no answer, just doggedly held my position. I knew my continued life depended on my leaving. This marriage was killing me slowly. My sons were of course upset, but I made it clear to them I was leaving their father and I was not leaving them. I gave them the choice to go with me or stay with their Dad. Because it had been their home for all their life plus school, friends, and all that was familiar they stayed with him. My oldest son was already inactive. My youngest was forced to attend meetings. I was disfellowshipped the day I flew out to be with my Sweetheart.

    It has now been 10 months almost and my sons have regular visits with me since I moved back 7 months ago to be near them. As soon as my divorce is final my beloved and I will marry. Life with him is so different, so good. I can feel the love from him, and that is something I never felt before from my husband. And I love him dearly. He is a jewel of a man to me and my sons.

    The witnesses teachings on marriage kept my marriage together for 30 years. It is good? Well some of that time was pretty good, but the majority of it was so hard. I had my beloved children and am glad I stuck it out to have them. But a the same time I feel I missed being with my beloved Lost Love those 30 years. He had looked for me over the years and I had tried looking for him two different times when my marriage was so bad. Everything I have lived and experienced is part of who I am today, good and bad. I have no desire to ever return to the JW's life style, and know it would be a terribly long time anyway before they would let me back. There are some teachings I still value doctrine wise. But I know the WTS has held a strangle hold over keeping my feelings and life down to the standards set by them. I feel a freedom now I have not know in over 30 years. I am glad to have the old me back.

    There are noblack and white to what we experienced while being witnesses, or being out. But mostly everything is shades of gray. Black and white thinking of everything of either everything being all correct, or all wrong is cult thinking. And life is simply not like that. We need to take what is good that we feel we benefited from and discard the bad parts. And sometimes it is just a mixed bag, and that is how I feel.

    I hope my story will show that amac, and all the other posters are correct in their thinking. Remember nothing is all bad or all good. Amac parents have been fortunate that the love they had for each other was benefited by the witnesses teachings. And it does show that people applying some good family standards can help a foundering couple who love each other.

    Balsam

  • amac
    amac

    Balsam -
    Thank you for sharing your experience and throwing a balanced viewpoint into the discussion. A viewpoint that I personally benefited from.

  • casey777
    casey777

    Balsam thank you so much for your story. I am sorry that you let the JW's convince you into staying into a situation that brought you so much pain and unhappiness and I am glad that you have found love. It sounds like you where never in love with your first husband to begin with if he was just a rebounder from your true love. Do you think that if your lost love was a Witnesses you would still be a Witness and be happy? I am not a JW, but I am checking into it, I have learned things that I had never known or heard of before. You know same old sad story grew up in an abusive, violent environment. My mother and three fathers where atheists and never taught me about God. I have been hurt so meny times by men in the world, I just thought finding a religious one would work for a change. Nothing is 100% only in dreams and fairy tales. Thanks again for your story, as a matter of fact I enjoy all of the comments and story's I have read, they will help me to decide wether being a JW is right for me. And balsam I hope that this relationship lasts and brings you meny years of joy. Casey777

  • Balsam
    Balsam

    amac and casey,
    I learned things that were a benefit to me about human interaction by being a witness. For me the bible is a good guild. I know here at tjis message board after leaving the witnesses reject the bible entirely, and some don't. Some reject the witnesses as totally bad, some don't. I knew too many folks with the the witness organization that are good people, people who loved God and appreciate Christ sacrifice. I know that as Christians they are good and decent people. My problem lies with the extra rulings that the WTS forces people to go along with. The rulings of the men of the Governing Body who claim to be God inspired. Well their rulings only prove they are not.

    I have seen people who become witnesses totally turn there lives around and be happy becoming a witness. But I have also seen this in other religions too. Casey you need to do a very through investigation of the Witness history, and realize that no religion is going to be 100% directed by God Almighty. No organization can claim that though many do. The Mormons, witnesses and most all religions claim to have a corner on God.

    Casey asked if my Lost love and I had been together, and become witnesses would it have been good? Yes I have no doubt it would have been good. It can't be wrong to live by good and clean moral principles. But if one of us had come to see the witness rulers as not inspired by God, and wanted to come out, both of us would have. We think so much alike that it makes like so much easier. I think we would have been happy no matter what so long as we kept spirutality with God as part of our life. He is a Christian, but has never been a witness. We both now attend a Christian chruch for fellowship, and enjoy it. There are things I have some issues with, but Jesus said to trust in him and I do. And I feel close to God and Christ though I am rejected by the witnesses.

    Something else Casey if you are considering be a witness, you need to investigate the blood issue completely. And understand the disfellowshipping and disassocation rules before ever accepting them. When one come under suspicion of not agreeing 100% with the the Governing Bodie rules and guildlines they do kick them out. It can mean the loss of your family and friends. So do your home work, and make an informed choice, because it will affect you the rest of your life.

    Balsam

  • Devlish_Advocate
    Devlish_Advocate
    EDIT: any by 'omit this part', I mean, stop teaching that women need to be submissive or treated in any way as having a different status than men - women can't give public talks or major parts, conduct watchtower/bookstudies, must wear something on her head when performing spiritual activities in the presence of her husband or a brother (why not make her wear this ALL the time, and make it cover the WHOLE head.....), etc.

    Thank you, Xander!

    I remember this crap-filled teaching as a young woman sitting in the KH praying for a husband that I could be submissive to and thinking, "Why can't I just have an EQUAL partner?"

    My father didn't make matters any better. Whenever I had a free thought, he'd say, "That's what you get for doing your own thinking!" or "If you can't be a submissive woman, no man will want to marry you."

    How far did the WT get me?

    Let's see. I married at 22 to a man I was living with because my parents sent me a letter telling me I'd be better off marrying him than living with him because living with someone was unforgivable in the eyes of the Society, not Jehovah (or any other God or Goddess). They were more concerned with their rep in the KH than my happiness. As it turns out, my husband is bisexual and after many years of bearing that pain and burden, we are finally (and thankfully!) divorcing.

    I got married for the wrong reasons to the wrong man. It was in part thanks to my wonderful dubby upbringing and brainwashing. Lord knows I tried to make my marriage work because, "Jehovah hates a divorcing."

    No one should endure years of pain and misery with someone just to chase an ideal that even the best humans among us have a hard time doing.

    Kathryn
    Devilish Advocate

  • Gopher
    Gopher

    Kathryn,

    Very well written! Welcome to the board... I look forward to any future posts you may have.

    Yes it is so sad, trying to fulfill an impossible ideal... You really should have gotten a fairer shake...Well there still is the future---those of us who have gotten into poor situations before know better and hopefully will not repeat the same sort of mistakes...

    -J.R.

    Don't let yesterday use up too much of today.--Will Rogers, 1879-1935

  • restorebeauty
    restorebeauty

    Is it true that you can't have oral sex?

  • Xander
    Xander

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=31673&site=3

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=28156&site=3

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=26841&site=3

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=28169&site=3

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=25260&site=3

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=20050&site=3

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=22432&site=3

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=27387&site=3

    And, sadly, these are just the threads started on this topic in the last few months. It's....uhhhh....a hot topic around here.

    Short answer? I don't believe it is currently 'banned', just strongly discouraged (as is anal sex and genital manipulation). You can get yourself disfellowshipped by discussing it with others in the congregation (as in 'my spouse and I have...').

    EDIT: Just to add - it has been strongly banned in the past (along with the others mentioned), but now it is not. They have just left it as a 'conscience matter'. You know, one of the 'God and Jesus will hate you if you do it, and you'll grow giant warts on your head, and surely die slowly and horribly at Armageddon as your whole family watches on, laughing -- but, it's a conscience matter, we wouldn't want to force our opinions on you.'

    Edited by - Xander on 8 August 2002 10:25:51

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