Why I no longer believe the Bible is "God's Word" and I no longer believe in "God" (page 7)

lifeisgood

rebel8,

Do you mean that 1Corinthians 11 explains to us how women are inferior? I believe it.

tec

Since the book that tells us how to follow Christ is make believe how can I learn how to follow Christ?

Well, somehow I learned how. Not to judge. To forgive. Not to repay evil with evil. To love enemies, and show mercy and love to those who do wrong to us (probably the hardest to do, and while I certainly fail, I sometimes also succeed. I keep striving though, because I believe it). I guess it just depends on what we see.

But I didn't just learn because a book told me some rules. I learned them because that is what love teaches. It is how I know that he lived in love. Because the things he taught and did, the things that came out of him, came from love.

I said several times that I became a Christain at the age of 9, read the Bible costantly, was a lay preacher for many churches from 13 to 15 and then became a Jehovah's Witness. So, not sure how you thought I did not know Christ.

Reading the bible constantly, even memorizing every word cover to cover; being a lay preacher, etc... none of these make a person a Christian. I think I might say that you did not know Christ BECAUSE you became a JW. It isn't a judgment. I believed them too. Why? Because I did not know Christ. Had I known Him, I would not have believed the falsehoods and half-truths being told in his name, or about him. I would have known that theirs was a stranger's voice, and not to listen to it.

Tammy

tec

But if someone started a thread that said this: "but for good people to do evil things, now that takes capitalism" ...I doubt you'd be so passionate as to jump up and make the same point. Defending capitalism from being "thrown under the bus" like you did with religion. I think the reason is that because you have biblical beliefs with no affiliation to any religion, but you still feel threatened if someone attacks religion in general.

You have a valid point. If someone said that directly to me (about capitalism), I would refute it. But probably not as passionately (I might just shake my head and leave it be after making my point), and I might not even open a thread that starts that way because I don't like to get involved in the political left/right debates. Especially since that seems American, and I am Canadian:)

However, capitalism and other similar things do not make claims about God and Christ - claims that might be truth or lies. Religion does, and so do those who oppose it. So while I am often in disagreement with much of organized religion, it is still something that I am quick to respond to, because of my faith and love for God and Christ... and hopefully, truth about them.

Tammy

unshackled

Especially since that seems American, and I am Canadian:)

Cool...same here. Knew there was something about the way you carried yourself on here. So polite! lol

So while I am often in disagreement with much of organized religion, it is still something that I am quick to respond to, because of my faith and love for God and Christ... and hopefully, truth about them.

Fair enough. For me I think it comes down to a disdain for organized religion, so the term "religion" is ruined for me. Religion = organized religion. But don't take issue with ones such as yourself who are spiritual - beliefs without connection to organized religion.

FollowedMyHeart

I'm just starting my quest, so I'm not sure about what I believe regarding God, Jesus, etc. I do have a couple questions for tec.

First:

tec said: He also came to bear witness to the truth, to show people the way to life and to his Father, to show us how we should live (love, forgiveness, mercy, not judging, not doing wrong for wrong). He set us an example to follow as best we can, and we are to look to him to see God.

What about all mankind that lived thousands of years before Jesus? Did they not deserve to learn the truth, be shown how to live in order to please God?

Second:

tec said: Well, somehow I learned how. Not to judge. To forgive. Not to repay evil with evil. To love enemies, and show mercy and love to those who do wrong to us

If I understand you correctly, you are saying you learned these from Christ. Does that mean that w/o Christ you would be judgemental, unforgiving, repaying evil for evil, merciless and unloving?

Please understand that I am in no way being critical or argumentative. These are simply questions that occurred to me, and since I am in the learn-everything-I-can mode, I am curious about your viewpoint.

jaguarbass

Read Michael Tillingers Slave Species of God if you want to have an idea who the small group that wrote the bible is.

tec

Cool...same here. Knew there was something about the way you carried yourself on here. So polite! lol

Canadians ARE cool :)

or perhaps a

I do understand how the term religion has been ruined. I prefer to say faith, or being spiritual. Those are closer to what I mean, and to what others will understand.

Tammy

tec

What about all mankind that lived thousands of years before Jesus? Did they not deserve to learn the truth, be shown how to live in order to please God?

God tried to tell them. He sent prophets and servants. Most were not willing to listen.

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!"

No reason, imo, that the rest of the world would be any different than the Israelites.

If I understand you correctly, you are saying you learned these from Christ. Does that mean that w/o Christ you would be judgemental, unforgiving, repaying evil for evil, merciless and unloving?

Sometimes, I am angry and hurt, and I can only show mercy and forgiveness because I remember that Christ did this for us, and that we should follow. I might not even consider that I should also love my enemies. The world doesn't tend to teach this. I might very well be judgmental - but I took that 'judge not and you will not be judged' to heart. First it was a rule for me, but as I come to understand more of what it means to love, I understand why we don't judge as well.

I know that I would not have as deep an understanding of love without Christ. I thought I knew love before; I thought I knew patience and mildness and mercy and forgiveness; but I see now that I understood only a shadow of these things. I'm sure I still only understand in part, but more from looking to Christ than I ever knew without Him.

I don't think I would repay evil for evil. Natural consequences stem from doing so, and so we can learn from experience (sometimes).

I don't think you're being critical, FollowedMyHeart. You should ask all the questions you can think of, and I am happy to answer whatever you would like to know from me. But I can only speak for me and my experience. If you have the faith to do so, you should ask Christ, himself, for understanding into these matters.

Tammy

lifeisgood

tec,

You really don't know very much about human history given your answer to this question, "What about all mankind that lived thousands of years before Jesus? Did they not deserve to learn the truth, be shown how to live in order to please God?"

You said "God tried to tell them. He sent prophets and servants. Most were not willing to listen."

The only description of this that you could have is the Old Testament. Most of the Old Testament describes entire nations being murdered without any chance of them making any sort of repentence because they were occupying the land that was promised to Israel. 'Jehovah' didn't even give the Israelites permission to tell them why they were being murdered, let alone give them a chance to repent.

The vast majority of humans before Jesus had no knowledge of the Bible or of Jehovah, and the vast majority were not approached by "propets and servants" and told that they needed to change.

What you are saying is a total fantasy.

PSacramento

But I was noting that PSac and Tec came to the defense of religion, eager to point out it isn't the only cause.

Tammy and I both agree that religion (organized) is NOT a good thing, and while I can't speak for her, I think we also agree that the disagreement we have with what you said was do to the absolut nate of what you stated, which is NOT true.

Religion CAN be used to cause good people to do bad things, but so can a whole lot of other stuff.

Why I no longer believe the Bible is "God's Word" and I no longer believe in "God"

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