Seeking counsel from active or former Elders / COs / DOs

by Nickolas 34 Replies latest jw friends

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  Nickolas

  Could it be that if it wasn't the WT it would have been something else?

  It would have been absolutely wonderful.

  Good luck, I will pray for you both right as soon as I finish typing this.

  That's great, thanks, Ray.

  Thank you, wasblind. Truth is important to me, too, and so are my principles. My wife is shunning her nephew. Her brother and SIL are shunning their son. My nephews are shunning their brother. This is intolerable to me. I was brought up to believe that family is everything and you never turn your back on them, so this has become the straw.
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  wasblind

  I know what you mean Nik,

  I was in the grocery store, this was while I was attending the Hall

  and I was in a conversation with a sister from our Hall, her df'ed

  daughter pasted by, I said hello, ( I'm not a baptised JW ) the mother

  kept on talkin' as if she didn't even see her own child. My heart sank

  There is nothin' in this world, that would keep me from showin' my

  child any love, and if that makes me unworthy of God's love. then

  so be it.
• 

  OUTLAW

  I was brought up to believe that family is everything and you never turn your back on them, so this has become the straw.....Nickolas

  I can totally understand that..

  I was taught JW`s are more your family,than your family..Screw your family unless they are JW`s..

  A house pet has more loyalty to family than your average JW..

  Of course..

  The WBT$ has written negative articles about keeping pets..

  A JW might learn something from their pet..

  The WBT$ does everything in their power to de-Humanize JW`s..

  JehoBot Witness..

  "I`m not Good Enough..Do More..Your not Good Enough..Armageddon!"..

  

  .................... ...OUTLAW
• 

  InterestedOne

  Nickolas, I am a worldly with a female JW friend that I am/was trying to get to know (truly get to know as a person). I have become very cautious about what I say to her because I am concerned that the elders will tell her I am a spiritual danger. By ratcheting up, you said you meant that you are considering distancing yourself from her JW friends/relatives. At first glance, I'm not sure why that would cause someone to call you a spiritual danger. I would think they would call you a spiritual danger if you were actively trying to show your wife why the WT is wrong. Were you planning on actively engaging your wife on WT matters in addition to just passively distancing yourself from certain individuals? If so, are you able to articulate why you would engage her - what you hope to accomplish? Having battled this for 30 years, I'm sure you've gone over it many times, but I'm just curious - partially for myself because I struggle with how & why I should try to communicate with my JW friend.
• 

  Nickolas

  you've got it, wasblind.

  I am beginning to understand better the extent to which you've been burned, OUTLAW.

  I've covered a lot of ground in three decades, InterestedOne, but not especially well.

  good night.
• 

  Nickolas

  I would think they would call you a spiritual danger if you were actively trying to show your wife why the WT is wrong. Were you planning on actively engaging your wife on WT matters in addition to just passively distancing yourself from certain individuals? If so, are you able to articulate why you would engage her - what you hope to accomplish? Having battled this for 30 years, I'm sure you've gone over it many times, but I'm just curious - partially for myself because I struggle with how & why I should try to communicate with my JW friend.

  I ruminated on your questions overnight, InterestedOne. Yes, I am actively trying to engage my wife in a conversation but it is very much like pulling teeth. When I make a point that is devastating to her perception of the WTBTS the blinders go up. I have seen first hand what cognitive dissonance means, and it is an amazing, remarkable and frighteningly real phenomenon. What I hope to accomplish is really very simple. I want to get her the hell out of the Watchtower. If you are struggling with why you should try to communicate with your friend, I might suggest it is because you are not sufficiently knowledgeable about how the Watchtower destroys people or convinced that it does. I wasn't for a long time, either. It is only when it got personal that it hit home.
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  InterestedOne

  Nickolas, Thank you for clarifying what you meant by ratcheting up. I've been checking out the WT firsthand (going to their meetings, etc.) for about a year, and I'm convinced that it destroys people. You make a good point that if I'm convinced that it is destructive, I should not struggle with why I should try to communicate with my friend. I sympathize with the dynamic you are experiencing which I agree is like pulling teeth.

  FWIW, I am working through the material on websites such as this

  http://www.sjsu.edu/depts/itl/graphics/main.html

  but you may already be past that sort of thing. It's helping me because I need to learn the basics of what most rational people consider sound argumentation. I'm hoping to get my thoughts more organized in a dispassionate way.

  From reading over your posts on this thread, here is what I see:

  1. On one hand, you have agreed not to interfere with her WT activities even though you disagree with them.

  2. On the other hand, you have named at least one of her WT activities that you find intolerable - namely the straw being shunning.

  This is a tough situation because how can you -not- interfere with something you find intolerable? I guess there are two pieces to what you could do. The first piece is that you could exercise your own choice and associate with the people being shunned. If your wife shuns them, that is her choice, but you are not personally going to do it. The second piece is to attempt to have a dispassionate discussion about it using basic logic as illustrated on websites like the one I mentioned above or just google the term "critical thinking."
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  Violia

  Nick, I am not an elder but I read your posts. I see how much love and friendship there is between you and your wife. I personally would put up with just about anything to hang onto that. It is not often you find folks who love each other this much. Don't let this religion break up your marriage. Love like you have is hard to find.
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  Weana

  If someone's spouse becomes an apostate, that is usually not an "absolute endangerment of spiritual life" (as that term is defined in the God's-Love-Book). Even if you try to discuss controversial issues from time to time, normally that would not justify a separation: such attempts would not "make it impossible for the mate to pursue true worship", as with the help of God's spirit, of the elders and so on, your wife should be able to stay in the truth, anyway. Of course you might be "a spiritual danger" to her (that's we she is not allowed to spiritually associate with you), but as long as you do not constantly preventing her from studying / attending meetings / every kind of preaching activity, you are not an "absolute endangerment of her spiritual life".
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  sir82

  If the elders in my wife's congregation should decide that I have become a spiritual danger to her, how would they advise her?

  Well, there's what they should do, and what they will do, which can be polar opposites.

  What they should do (per written WT policy) is tell her that they don't interfere in such decisions, that the choice is 100% up to her, that the consequences will be on her head. The end.

  What they might do, depending on how radical / insane / off the deep end they are, is tell her that you are a danger, for her own well-being she ought to leave, that her spiritual life depends on getting as far away from you as possible.

  Those are the 2 ends of the spectrum. Where, on that spectrum, the elders she talks to are is probably a complete crapshoot.