by losthobbit 67 Replies latest watchtower bible
LilyPie, faith and trust may be the same thing in the Christian context, but then you have to define trust.
How about this definition?
"Faith is a decision making process in the mind, in which various pieces of evidence are accepted or rejected, leading to a degree of certainty."
The sun arguments escape me somehow. You can't guarantee 8 minutes of sun. It may have been distroyed seven minutes ago. You don't have to have faith it exist. It is known to exist. Just a thought.
playing in the devils advocate for a moment...
Here's a nice one from dictionary.com:
"belief that is not based on proof"
Sounds good, but if one thinks a bit, one might realize some problems...
1) It is not based on proof. This means that if you can prove what you believe in, you don't have any faith.
strictly speaking i dont think this follows: If i believe in statement X not because of the proof, but proof do exist, i would still have faith in X AND be able to proove it. ofcourse accepting something as true for reasons other than evidence has very little value, and quickly lead to communication problems, for instance i doubt a christian police officer would see much value in my statement that i have faith his speed-measuringapperatus is off by 30mph.
This means that if you can prove what you believe in, you don't have any faith.
I have heard some people say this as if it is a scary or bad thing.
If the thing you had faith in being true is finally proven to be true, then you were simply right to have had faith in it to begin with. Your faith has now been proven true.
Now, if you continue to have faith in something that has been proven (not theorized) to be false, then delusion might have a place in the definition of your faith.
Tammy
Here is perhaps too practical a question:
Name ten things people have placed great faith in (Christianity-wise) that have been PROVED to be true.
There, that should do it!
I may have had faith in the JW/WT organization.
I may have had faith in Bernie Madoff's ponzi scheme.
Having a faith is of no value, trust can be misplaced.
To say you have faith in , or trust, a god, with no proof whatsoever for that god's existence, is bordering on certifiable.
Name ten things people have placed great faith in (Christianity-wise) that have been PROVED to be true.
I would like to offer the following, dear Terry (peace to you!): (1) Christ coming in the flesh; (2) of a virgin; (3) him being persecuted, (4) killed, and (5) lots cast over his garments; (6) his resurrection; (7) the outpouring of holy spirit at Pentecost; (8) his warnings against the results of Roman occupation; (9) persecution of Israel; (10) Jews by Romans; christians by Jews and Romans; (11) slaughter of those who didn't flee Jerusalem when they should have; (12) safety of those who did; (13) destruction of the temple; (14) his apostles bearing witness to him in Judea, Samaria, and much further...
If the most open minded, and intelligent people in the world spent their lives researching all the world's religions, evaluating all the evidence for and against each religion, and used statistics to determine the most likely true religion, do you think you would join the religion that they chose, or would you stick to what your own mind tells you?
Knowing what... and who... I do NOW, dear losthobbit (peace to you, as well!), I would stick to what my Lord tells me (which is not the same as my mind). Thus far, he hasn't indicated that there is a religion to join. To the contrary, he has told me to flee from them all... and follow him. How do I know it is not my own mind telling me? Because I KNOW what my own mind says and more often than not it has nothing to do with any of this. Rather, it says things like, "Okay, you need to take the dirty laundry down and then load the dishwasher." Or, "That's right, that report is due Friday, oh, and don't forget you have that City Council meeting Wednesday night so put it in the calender." Or, "Call hubby/daughter/son/friend and tell him/her you love him/her." Or, "Oh, shoot, GOT to make that vet appointment and have Lulu's eyes checked!" Or... "If that poster comes at me ill one more time, just one more time... huh, what, Lord? Yes, I know, you're right: it's upon ME to show love, not him/her. Yes, I hear you and I will do as you're teaching me. Thank you for the reminder."
I know the difference between MY heart, mind, and spirit... and my Lord's. We are not the same, not at all. I can't even compare, not in a million years.
Again, peace to you!
A slave of Christ,
SA
Jesus' virgin birth certainly does not count as something proven to be true Shelby. You don't need me to tell you where that myth orignated I'm sure
Faith = whistling in the dark
Okay, dear Cofty (peace to you!)... rather than argue that point I will concede. However, I've named 13 things proven. Only 10 were asked for, though...
Again, peace to you!
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SA, marvelling at yet another straining out of a gnat...
Actually Shelby I would not grant you many of your 13 points but the virgin birth really is a howler.
