Is it possible to define faith in a simple, logical, unambiguous way? (page 6)

Fernando

Hey losthobbit!

Great question and discussion. One of the most important questions on earth and in history.

Might I suggest that we all forget what religion/ists taught us and never trust them ever again. For religious leaders (the clergy class) the REAL Jesus (on which genuine faith and spirituality are based) will ALWAYS be a "stone of stumbling" and a "rock-mass of offense" (since he leads people away from religion/ists).

Faith is best understood once experienced.

Faith is not belief - this is a religious lie - to hide the fact that religionists have no faith. This is why most "statements of faith" proceed with a list of (supremacist doctrinal) beliefs. The word faithS (plural) is also non-existent in scripture and another deceptive invention of spiritually blind religionists.

Faith issues from God, belief issues from man. Belief is not listed as a fruit/age of the Holy Spirit, whereas faith is!!!

Definition: "Faith is a wide opening of our spiritual eyes". It is a switching on of the spiritual lights. It is related to the phases of healing of our inner human spirit: transcend (time and space), liberate, awaken and regenerate.

According to scripture: faith is not a possession of all persons, and God grants it after a favourable response to a hearing of the unabridged gospel (Rom 10:16,17).

Faith permits ordinary people (fallen sinners) to see (discern) things from another time, place or realm which cannot be seen (discerned or understood) by the religious, physical, natural, carnal or temporal man (1 Cor 2:14-15).

rory-ks

Romans 3:4? "Let God be found true, though every man be found a liar." I wonder if that is a fairly sound definition of faith.

I like to sum it up with the phrase, "Nothing is the way that you think it is."

Forget everything you think you know about faith; Faith as small as a singularity

still thinking

Thanks for resurrecting this thread...don't think I have seen it before....will come back later

Chariklo

What still thinking said. Don't want to lose sight of the thread, but no time now to write.

Interesting!

losthobbit

Fernando

Thanks for your comment. I once wrote a blog post about poetic vs. logical arguments. Feel free to read it if you like...

http://soberauer.blogspot.co.uk/2011/07/poetic-vs-logical-arguments.html

A quick summary of it, is basically that one cannot argue a point using poetry. One has to use precise, unambiguous words with a fixed definition if one wants to have a rational discussion. For this reason I'm going to try to translate your poetic definition "Faith is a wide opening of our spiritual eyes" into something less poetic, so here goes:

"Faith is being able to [something] [something]"

What I'm trying to say here is that I have great difficulty translating it into something precise and well defined... "wide opening" could be understanding, belief, acceptance... which one is it? What does spiritual mean? I spiritual that which cannot be defined, or cannot be understood, or is it things pertaining to God or any deity?

Rory

You gave two "definitions":

"Let God be found true, though every man be found a liar."

"Nothing is the way that you think it is."

I don't consider your answers to be simple, logical, unambiguous definitions at all. What I understand from what you wrote is that you believe that faith is "Believing in God for no particular reason and in spite of any knowledge one may have gained through evidence, observation or testing."

Is that accurate?

gubberningbody

The word "Faith" has been used by too many people in too many different ways to be useful any more.

I'm not sure what point there might be in attempting to repaint the word unless one just loves the sound it makes or the way the word looks when it's written.

To answer the question - "Yes".

It's always possible to provide an unambiguous definition of any word.

The question is whether others will agree with you. - They won't. Ever.

Fernando

Hey losthobbit!

Thank you for that informative and useful blog post.

How about the following:

Faith is not belief. This is a religious lie to hide the fact that religionists have no faith. Belief emanates from man. Faith emanates from God.

Faith is not religion. Another religious lie.

The dictionary has at least in part sourced its definition from religious persons and therefore comes up short.

Faith is (a spiritual person) being able to see (discern) things from another time, place and realm that the (spiritually blind) religious, physical, natural, carnal, temporal man cannot. These things are revealed to ordinary persons (who have yielded to and embraced the unabridged gospel of grace message) by the Holy Spirit.

Faith is best understood once experienced. I also strongly doubt it can be understood unless experienced.

I guess it is a little like a straight person not being able to fully comprehend what exactly it is to be gay unless s/he actually became gay. Similarly one only fully understands being male or female by being male or female.

I guess it is a perennial failing of humans that our ignorance is often only dispelled by personal experience.

The only way I lost my ignorance of faith was personally experiencing it.

That having been said, genuine faith has been experienced by millions. Although I imagine most would agree with the above, I am certain many could define it better than I have.

NewChapter

Faith is (a spiritual person) being able to see (discern) things from another time, place and realm that the (spiritually blind) religious, physical, natural, carnal, temporal man cannot. These things are revealed to ordinary persons (who have yielded to and embraced the unabridged gospel of grace message) by the Holy Spirit.

This is an interesting definition. I note the reference to Holy Spirit, gospel and grace. Whoever offered up this definition doesn't include anyone outside of Christianity. Funny and ironic.

Fernando

Hey NC!

I agree that so-called" Christian" religionists do promote and hold such an exclusivist and supremacist view.

They are wrong though.

The "gospel of God" is the same as the eternal "Abrahamic Promise" and hence is common to Christians, Jews and Muslims.

It is religion that keeps "Christians" ignorant of the unabridged gospel.

It is religion that keeps "Jews" ignorant of the unabridged bissar.

It is religion that keeps "Muslims" ignorant of the unabridged injeel/injil.

More has been written about Jesus/Yeshua/Isa than any other person. He is the one we are called to find and follow by a hearing of the generous, healing and priceless gospel/bissar/injeel/injil message. We are called to follow him, not a particular religion, tradition, dogma, denomination, cult, person, organisation or sect.

Hindus for Jesus. Delightful. Mahatma Gandhi was more of a follower of Jesus than most "Christians".

Gays for Jesus. Great. Those most despised by religionists are the ones Jesus said would be going ahead of them into the Kingdom.

Atheists for Jesus. Fantastic, although a little confusing, at least to me.

NewChapter

Hmm. But does faith exist outside of Jesus and the bible god?

Atheists for Jesus? Is this real? Some atheists consider themselves cultural christians---so maybe they just like some of the things Jesus said. I could never identify myself that way---but that's how we atheists are.

I am finding your defiintion a bit ethnocentric also. Would you say that those that worshipped Thor had faith?

NC

Is it possible to define faith in a simple, logical, unambiguous way?

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