LETS TALK JESUS.....

Quentin

Was Jesus a real living being? Or, was He a myth, made up 60 to 70 years after the fact.

I for one believe he did exist. Was the epicenter of oral traditions and overblown hype. Remember Paul's writings and Establishment of congregations, along with other apostolic writing, took place AFTER Jesus left the scene. It became necessary to establish a back story to shore up the activity of , mainly Paul and his teachings, along with all manner of local Church's scattered north into modern day Turkey, south into Arabia , east as far as Babylon and west into Egypt.

Sidebar question. Why was Saul ( Paul ) SO adamant about going to Damascus? Thats always puzzled me.

WHAT DO YOU THINK? Keep it civil folks. no name calling, everyone's view is as important as the next person. Also, hard for some of you to do, no sermons, we don't need to be preached/witnessed to.

talesin

I am by no means a biblical scholar, but as you appear to be asking even the 'simple folk' to comment on how they see this issue, here's my 2.

I've always felt it's kinda like King Arthur - was there a single person this tale is based upon? Perhaps.

or maybe...

Jesus is a composite of ideas/thoughts poured into a construct of one person.

t

(edited to say,,, I admit that I know a lot more about the history surrounding "arthur" than I do about Jesus, so I hope the comparison is apt)

unshackled

If Jesus existed he never was what the bible claims him to be. He was just a dude, a rebel rouser...who for whatever circumstances may have been executed by authorities. He had a sympathetic following. Stories grew over the years...the legend became bigger and bigger. Realities stretched. Eventually, the myth was conveniently used in the bible to represent something the real Jesus never was.

PSacramento

Books in regards to Jesus:

The Historical Jesus: Ancient Evidence for the Life of Christ Gary R. Habermas (Author)

The Historical Jesus: Five Views

Jesus Outside the New Testament: An Introduction to the Ancient Evidence (Studying the Historical Jesus) [Paperback]

Robert E. Van Voorst (Author)

Jesus and the Victory of God (Christian Origins and the Question of God, Volume 2) [Paperback]

N. T. Wright (Author) and by the same author:

The Resurrection of the Son of God (Christian Origins and the Question of God, Vol. 3) [Paperback]

Those will answer most of your questions.

Witness My Fury

He spoke a lot of riddles.... and even when he gave his own interpretation for his followers then, they still arent always clear what he meant. Then he left it to us to interpret them, ... hmmm look where that got us!

AGuest

Was Jesus a real living being? Or, was He a myth, made up 60 to 70 years after the fact.

"Jesus" was a myth, made up via translations of the NT from Aramaic to Greek, or Greek to Latin, dear Quentin (peace to you!). The Holy One of Israel, whose name, in Hebrew, is Jah eShua... or in English, Joshua... was and is a very real living being. For a time he was a being residing in flesh; but for the most part, he was and is a spirit being. Although Paul (and others whose writings are attributed to Paul) did make some things up early on (because of (1) prior education and resultant Pharisaical leaning, (2) the difficulty of the message, especially to the nations (who didn't have the Law) and in light of the "traditions" of the Jews, (3) and so wanting to "prove" something to the apostles, other holy ones, nations, etc.; and (4) leaning on their own understanding rather than being led by the Holy Spirit in ALL things), he did progress, praise JAH! (Can you imagine what the Bible would contain... and how the world would be... had he NOT?? My understanding is that he was SO harsh in his first letter to the Corinthians, which is NOT contained in the Bible canon, that it could not BE included)...

he left it to us to interpret them

That's not accurate, dear WMF (peace to you, as well!). While it is true that many have taken it upon themselves to do so... for themselves and in large amount for others... self-interpretation is neither required nor necessary. Christ said that once he left the Holy Spirit would arrive and teach "us." He said that he would pour out "living water" and by means of that (the anointing), we could discern truth. He said that we would NOT be left, but that he would be with us... and he is (for those who make up "us").

He did not lie: he, as the Holy Spirit, leads us... by means of the holy spirit he gives us... into ALL truth. Problem is, humans tend to like to do things the "hard" way. They prefer "adult" rocket science thinking over a childlike "it's really very elementary" way of viewing things. Makes us feel all "important" and all. But more often leaves us in the dark about a lot of things that we would rejoice over, if we knew them.

Anyway, I hope that helps and, again, peace to you both!

A slave of Christ,

SA, keepin' it civil, so no name calling... and no preaching/witnessing (IMHO)...

Midget-Sasquatch

I don't consider the Gospels as historically and factually accurate. I think they are stories that were made up but with the same meaningful purpose of myth.

Along with the key myth are legends and anecdotes that also build up over time. If one looks at all the collected materials, something that does stands out from the "miracles" are the sayings attributed to this Jesus. Not definitive concrete proof that he existed but having an oral tradition to me at least does make it very plausible that at least a person who spoke some of them really existed.

I realize some powerful sayings like the golden rule and the greatest of the commandments were very likely appropriated from other sources. But who's to say they weren't added on to what this Jesus was saying or if he actually put his own spin on it?

I think that there was an historical jew from the area of Galilee that got a small group of followers. I'm unsure if he was a roaming cynic, or an apocalyptic prophet. He may have been strongly associated with the Essenes .

From what's been written about James the Just and the strong association that's made between James and the early followers of Christianity, I'd say these people were definitely upset with the status quo aimed for by the Sadducees.

flipper

Jesus Christ. There, I talked Jesus. ( Just joking ). LOL ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper

Quentin

Thanks for your comments. I'll have more to say on the subject later in the evening. Let me leave you with this thought for the moment. There was a group of Christians called Ebionites ( sp? ) that preceded Jesus and the Gospels. Their Messiah was named by them as Jesus Little is known of this EARLY group as they were expunged in later Church History. Also, around 100 C.E. a man named Jesus was executed by the Romans.

I'm no Bible scholar either Tailsin, what you had to say was most appropriate to the discussion.

Thank you Mr. Flipper for talking Jesus, most enlightening it was...

AGuest

There was a group of Christians called Ebionites ( sp? ) that preceded Jesus and the Gospels.

The Gospels, perhaps, dear Q (peace to you!); however, by virtue of the true meaning of the word "christians" (i.e., chosen/anointed persons) I doubt if they preceded [Jesus]. Certainly not the One referred to by the Apostles as "Lord", "Teacher"... and "Christ", right? Wouldn't make sense, that, would it?

Again, peace to you!

A slave of Christ, by means of whom others are "christians",

SA