LETS TALK JESUS.....

by Quentin 36 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Mat

  I think he didn't exist. Evidence?

  1- his name. Why was it not Joshua? That is the usual transliteration of the Hebrew equivalent. A theory suggests that is was a subtle marriage of the Jewish god Jah with the pagan god Zeus.

  2- When did he say what? Matthew and Luke quote Jesus saying the same things but under different circumstances. The reason for this is theorised to be that they both had a list of sayings, but not the narrative context, so they made different stories to fit the sayings.

  3- Paul makes no reference to his ministry on earth. No miracles, no parables, no quotes- apart from more happiness in giving and the Eucharist. But surely he could have quoted more?

  4- similarities with pagan myths. Suggests mystical origins for his narrative

  5- No reliable secular references. Josephus' often cited references are plausibly fake additions. Odd considering God could have made sure there was plenty of contemporary writings to confirm his existence for later days.

  It all adds up to a King Arthur type of historical character. He wasn't there but was a later amalgamation by people with an agenda.
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  AGuest

  Shellby, fire up the oven and roast the crow, corn on the side if you please....... ,

  Not at all, dear Q (again, peace to you!). I have no doubt that you did read it somewhere. Be that as it may, I would ask the author/article writer the same questions. I mean, given the definition (at the time) of the word "christian."

  So no worries, dear one. I took you as coming from a place of sincerity.

  Again, peace to you!

  YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

  SA
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  Band on the Run

  I've done much work for an amateur on the historical Jesus. Right now I am reading The Meaning of Jesus by N.T. Wright and marcus borg. It is not new. I wrote a long paper in college on this topic. It is not universal but just about every reputable scholar believes Jesus of Nazareth lived. Whether Jesus was the Messiah and if so, his nature cannot be answered historically and never will short of the Second Coming.

  My lenten study group tried to separate the different gospel stories from the amalgam of Jesus material in the West. It is very hard not to mismash the whole thing. When I was in college, I deliberately did not research any JW material. Hence, historical Jesus. After NT, I studied in a small Jesus seminar at Columbia. Everyone had to take NT and read the gospels the semester before. Our first day the prof. asked us to write down three adjectives for Jesus. All Christians were wrong. Only three orthodox Jewish males reported adjectives based in the gospels.

  Jesus is all to us. He has to be so big to accomodate every whim and person that Jesus loses any real meaning.

  I love The Last Temptation of Christ.
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  Band on the Run

  The gospels show that most of John's followers did not follow Jesus. It is interesting. Wright and Borg write that Jesus' teachings were not unique. His sayings, morals, whatever fit perfectly into a first century Jewish view. They see HIm as a teacher like Philo and others of the time.

  Christian's don't worship Jesus b/c of his sayings, though they are instructive. Christians worship the Risen Christ. As Paul note's the folly of Christ is the ancient prayer, "Christ died. Christ was buried. Christ is risen. Christ will come again."

  And they expected it before they died.....

  Qumrun, the Essenes, Nag Hammadi, the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Pharisees - it was a pivotal time. Is Muhammad much later? They talk of a domination system that the Christian belief overturned.
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  Quentin

  It all adds up to a King Arthur type of historical character. He wasn't there but was a later amalgamation by people with an agenda......Mat

  Seems so, there is a 50/50, or at least 60/40 break in Bible scholars reasoning about Jesus. Is he an amalgamate myth? Was he a real person around which mythical stories were attached ? Was Jesus a TOTAL mythological persona made up from myth and mystery beliefs of the time? How much influence did the cult of Sol Invictus have on the Jesus story and Gospels" How much influence did Paul's writings have, necessitating a need for a back story to fill the void? One could go on and on with the questions.

  For me it is not so much finding the truth, as it is to reason on the matter, come to solid conclusions, It becomes important for believers and non-believers to REASON these things out. Why? Because of the wtbts that has a death grip on those who have left and those who have stayed.

  As jw.s we were not aloud to reason thing out, let alone question ANYTHING taught. NOW we have the luxury of doing that. Lets use it.
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  Midget-Sasquatch

  I thought several posters here may find this webpage I came across interesting.

  http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

  It gives readable info on the different ideas put forward about Jesus.
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  Quentin

  Good find MS, thanks for sharing...