oops that was thinking
Why do I no longer get attacked and persecuted by the demons, since I left JW,s ?
by pedal power 151 Replies latest jw friends
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NewChapter
So I remember all these stories when I was in about people that were hounded by demons but when they found "the truth" it stopped. Or if they called the name of Jehovah (why is that supposed to work? Is it like a magic charm or spell?) it stops. Proof that it's the truth. OR once in, they are bothered by demons. Proof it's the truth cuz now the satan is trying to pull you away.
That is always the reasoning. If something good happens, Jehovah is blessing you. Proof god is with you. If things go bad, satan is testing you, proof god is with you. War and reports of war, proof armegeddon is here. Peace and security, proof armegeddon is here.
I don't consider myself a skeptic to supernatural events. I consider you a skeptic to scientific explanation. I just encourage you to not stop with the demon theory but to try to look beyond it. If you elminate the concern about demons, this will no longer inject doubt into your reasoning.
NC
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WTWizard
Hypnosis. You are programmed to believe that, if you do something wrong, the demons will attack. At which point you interpret every little problem as a demon attack--along with other signs like thermal expansion (when the house is much warmer or much colder, causing thermal expansion that can make noise when the temperature changes). Another "demon attack" situation happens just when you are about to start sleeping--if you are a witless, you might mistake that for a demon attack (causing many of the witlesses to lose sleep). All it is is your thinking becoming incoherent, often times with audio hallucinations. If you wake up at the right point, you can even feel like you are in fact hallucinating when it is in fact a dream fragment. (Or, if you are programmed to believe that demons attack, you can feel like a demon attack).
At least, now that I no longer believe what the witlesses believe, I do not have to worry about demon attacks because I have heavy metal or rap music in my place.
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JonathanH
Alright, I'm going to leave the skeptic track for a second, and reason on the second part of what you're saying, pedal power. The part about maybe they are leaving you alone because the JW are being used by god. This on a logical basis makes zero sense.
This is your hypothesis.
1.Demons attack the JW because they are the true religion.
Evidence of this hypothesis?
2.When you left the Witnesses the Demons left you alone.
Explanation of this evidence?
3.They no longer cared about you because you were no longer one of god's people, they were happy that you left.
Now to reason on this, let's ask some questions.
Do other religions have demonic experiences? Yes. Most of them have their stories about demonic attacks. Then why are the demons attacking them? You could say because they are false religion. But this idea makes premise (1) unfalsifiable. Because if demons attack it is now evidence of both true and false religion.
But now let's ask if Demons leave people alone if they enter or leave other religions. And the answer to that is yes. You can find plenty of testimonials of people who were plagued by demonic attacks until they became born again, pentacostal, catholic. And even more confusing the watchtower and awake have experiences of people that were haunted by demons until they became witnesses. Why would this be, why would demons haunt you until you became a witness? Is it because god offers you protection from demons? If this is the case then (2) Is also unfalsifiable. Both joining and leaving the same religion are both grounds for a demon to attack you, and the water is further muddied by the fact that leaving and joining many religions have the same effect.
So now what you're left with is the fact that JWs experience demons is evidence of them either being true or false religion, and the fact that it stopped when you left is either evidence of God or Satan being happy that you left.
Your premises are not strong enough to draw any conclusions. The fact that you came to the conclusion that you did based on the evidence you have is more likely because you are simply afraid that you made a bad choice.
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ProdigalSon
Honestly, I believe that this organization is Satanic, that Jehovah is Satan, and exposure to it will invite demonic attacks because of the mind control and the promotion of FEAR. It's like taking drugs, it opens you up to paranormal activities and makes you vulnerable. It has nothing to do with what they may or may not want you to believe as far as doctrine. They couldn't care less about dogma. They want you to be afraid. Demons feed off fear, and the Watchtower is a fear-cult. Fear is the opposite of love. Love drives them away because they are negative entities.
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Found Sheep
I like that thought ProdigalSon and in a way it makes a lot of sence. When you think "cult" it doesn't take too far a shot to be "occult"
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JonathanH
Now to comment on the skeptical side of things again.
Benny Hinn got ridiculously rich showing both the educated and uneducated, the simple and the smart, the mentally disturbed and the mentally healthy supernatural feats. And he was a crook and a fraud. Simply saying that you are a sane person not prone to flights of fancy is meaningless. James Randy is an ex-magician that works to disprove supernatural phenomenon, he says his background as a magician helps because even scientists can be taken in by illusion if they aren't careful. The reason for this is because belief in our personal experience is hard to fight, even though it is one of the worst gauges of reality. It took thousands of years to come up with the scientific method, a means of removing person experience from the equation by relying only on that which is verifiable, quantifiable and predictable amongst a peer group using a solid methodogy meant to remove the uncertainty of personal experience. Prior to that reasoning on the world was done by experiencing it and then rationalizing those experiences. That's when we lived in a demon haunted world. Once we actually started reasoning rather than rationalizing, the demons, and gnomes, and mystical forces magically began to disappear. And the one's that remained were consistent only with the cultures and ideas of the people that experienced them.
Your hypothesis that skeptics never see demons because Satan is hiding from them is also disproven just by the fact that at least one atheist in this topic has experienced "spirits" or whatever, and there are others in the topic that have experienced "wierd things" but do not attribute them to demons. Your hypothesis would only be true if the nature of the demonic visit was expressedly unambiguous. The demon would have to say "Good evening sir, I am a supernatural entity you call a demon (A biblical one, not a hindu, or wiccan, or other kind of demon, those are make believe), now if this is a good time for you, I will proceed to haunt you. Don't take it personally, I'm only doing this because you do not have the divine protection of the Father (that's the christian god.), let's proceed with the haunting." If I had a book that wouldn't burn, my first thought would not be "holy crap, it's a demon, let me get my bible.". My first thought would be "this is highly interesting, let me remove it from the fire and begin documenting this and testing to find an explanation as to why this is so." Strangely enough no person having demon experiences ever seems to have the presence of mind to take this tack, and instead they do something that immediately ends the demon encounter, once again restoring natural order.
Furthermore that brand of reasoning renders any statement equally true. The only reason YOU don't know that our government is run by aliens is because they don't want you to. But that guy in the tin foil hat, he knows the truth. The only reason you haven't seen any hobbits is because they are so good at hiding from humans, but that chubby guy at comic con wearing the Gandolf costume, he's seen them, tolkien saw them too that's why he wrote about them. See how easy it becomes to justify anything if the reasoning behind it is that there is a concious agency that doesn't want you to know about it? When things patently false can be justified using a line of reasoning, then the line of reasoning probably should not be relied on because it lends no credence to that which you are using it for.
With phenomenon that are consistent with what you'd expect from psychologically and culturally motivated experiences such as demon attacks or talking with god, or monsters or visitors from the stars it always comes down to the individual insisting that everyone else may have mental problems, or are easily fooled, or are deluded in some way, but not me, I am not like that, my experiences were for real...and they all say that....which is what you would expect from psychologically motivated experiences.
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cantleave
I love "Demon" threads - It helps me realise I am not as insane as some other people!
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leavingwt
Is it possible that God is really using THEM, even though the GB is full of liars,and are in no way Inspired as they claim, We here know only to well that the vast majority of JW,s are oblivious to these lies, could God possibly be using those that are ignorant of the lies to accomplish something ? and If so what ? Just thinking aloud
Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. ALL of the evidence that I've seen points to WT being nothing more than a apocalyptic, millenarian, high-control group.
If you had to point to evidence supporting the claim that "God is using them", what would your Exhibit A be?
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pedal power
Thankyou for your comments, I was having a bible study, when the event I alluded to took place, those that were with me did not know this and were not witnesses, I stupidly taunted the Spirit/entity, that it would soon be destroyed, those that were with me, 3 others, had,nt a clue what I was talking about, the entity became enraged, and told us how we would all suffer, really nasty stuff, I couldnt believe what i was witnessing, but the others present with me implored me to stop taunting it, which I did, we left and didnt do that again. Anyway to cut a long story short, I went on to baptism, became a Dub, and intermitentley got plagued by the most horrific and savage dreams, sometimes it would make its presence known, though if I were to attempt to articulate or attempt to describe that on this forum, it would in all likelyhood result in scorn and derision, and I can totally understand why, because if I read a post like this I would likewise form the same conclusions. Thats the main difficulty in bringing this issue to the forum, You will be seen as suffering a psychotic episode, or you manifest these phenomena as a result of some sort of fanatic emotional zeal, I dont fall into any of those or other spurious categories, I know what I saw, infact I was a shit witness, I have no hidden agenda, Iam just trying to make sense of why I am no longer targeted, or experience this phenomena. I just wondered if it was at all possible that JW,s as a body warts and all could be being used by god, and if so for what purpose ?
I recognise many other religions report the same thing, but if{ Babylon } is the lurking place of demons, would,nt we expect that ?