PAWN SHOP (grace)

by Terry 42 Replies latest watchtower bible

Terry

A PAWN SHOP is a good working model for the doctrine of GRACE.
If we examine the model we can clearly view the elements of a bond and how the transaction works.
Then, we can apply what the model illustrates for understanding the metaphor used in the New Testament.
In a PAWN we have:
1.Customer who owns something of value
2.Pawn shop proprietor who holds the item in possession in exchange for a LOAN or BOND
3.BOND amount (the loan given against value on item pawned)
If the customer returns (usually after 30 days) he can reclaim his valued item only by REDEEMING it. (Repaying the load+interest)
Is that clear?
The customer walks in with dueling pistols and gets a loan of $500 from the Pawn Shop owner against the intrinsic value of the guns.
If the customer fails to return to reclaim the item (defaults) the Pawn Shop becomes the owner and can resell for profit.
The orignal customer can only reclaim ownership by PAYING THE AMOUNT of the BOND (REDEMPTION).
The Pawn Ticket can be sold to a 3rd party, of course, who can assume the debt.
This 3rd party can present the ticket, pay the amount of the Bond, and become the NEW owner.
This isn't complicated.
What is complicated is the dishonest way the simple metaphor of Bond and Redemption is co-opted by theologians in explaining the doctrine of GRACE.
In christian doctrine, the item pawned is MAN'S LIFE.
The Pawn Shop proprietor DEATH.
The Redeemer who pays the Bond is JESUS. (3rd party)
An honest appraisal of this analogy is necessary to sort out the argument being made.
Pawn shops operate under local LAW.
The maximum amount of interest, for example, is limited. The circumstances of redemption are defined and enforced.
Otherwise, the one holding the valued item (Pawn proprietor) could overcharge drastically making redemption exhorbitant.
Are you still with me?
Here is what christian doctrine tells us about this metaphorical GRACE.
GOD is the lawmaker. The law limits what man can do and holds him accountable. Breaking the law (sin) brings penalty (death.)
This is JUSTICE. Man gets what he deserves. Man does not get what he doesn't. JUSTICE is enforced by a God of Justice.
So far so good!
Here is where the PAWN illustration begins.
Adam possessed all of mankind in his testicles. ( I know, it sounds weird, but stay with me...)
Adam PAWNED all of mankind. (Sold them to DEATH). The price was set by LAW (eye for eye/tooth for tooth/life for life) by GOD.
To REDEEM the life of mankind the BOND (asking price set by Law) had to be paid by a REDEEMER.
Still with me?
Jesus paid the asking price to Death and reclaimed the life of mankind. The price? His OWN life. (Adam=Jesus)
JUSTICE has been satisfied according to LAW.
Everybody is happy, right? This is undeserved redemption FOR mankind, we are told. Man couldn't pay Adam's pawn ticket. Man was trapped as the "pawned" item. Man couldn't pay. Jesus stepped in an assumed the debt. Right?
HERE THERE BE DRAGONS! (The edge of the map of the known world)
Now don't get all bent out of shape.
A discussion of GRACE is like pouring salt on your eyeball. It produces agony!
But, an honest examination is necessary. Either GRACE is a manifestation of God's mercy or it is a fictional creation of theologians.
Here we go, fasten your seat belt.
This whole "explanation" is so mushy logically it falls apart drastically upon even casual examination.
DEATH is not a Pawn shop proprietor who can transact business. DEATH is not a person. DEATH is the absence of life. PERIOD!
Already we have a problem with the cast of characters!
Secondly, LIFE is not a tangible asset which can be transferred into ownership. LIFE is an organic phenomenon involving energy conversion.
LIFE is inextricable from ORGANISM. LIFE can't be put in a safe or stacked on a shelf. So, strike two!
Third, JUSTICE under God's LAW is getting what you DESERVE and not getting what you DON'T.
Justice is fair and balanced, for example, in the Mosaic covenant because eye for eye and tooth for tooth and life for life is LIKE for LIKE.
In other words: fair is fair. GOD is JUST accordingly when He exacts this balance.
If man breaks the law, God is JUST in exacting fair penalty according to that law.
Note: Big Logic problem about to hit the fan......
The LAW of God is perfect and man is not. So what?
Asking Israel to bind themselves to an IMPOSSIBLE agreement (perfection) is by any standard unfair burden of performance.
This is why we don't allow minors to sign contracts, they aren't experienced enough to realize when they are being cheated!
Further, the NON-Israel humans in the rest of the Earth "did what was good in their own eyes." A different standard accepted by God!?
Here is where the rubber is about to meet the road.
GOD is the final arbiter, Judge, Jury and executioner. GOD exacts JUSTICE by applying the fairness of law as earned.
It is GOD who declared the penalty of sin. DEATH is GOD'S determination in the first place.
But--importantly--it isn't summary, impromptu execution. It is legal enforcement of fair standard.
This is what makes and reveals righteousness by God; perfect enforcement of a perfect law.
IF ADAM died (and he did) and all of Adam's offspring die (and they do) this bondage to death is the RESULT of God's Justice legally enforced.
Are you still with me?
For GRACE (undeserved) to suddenly present the Pawn Ticket for payment is to ABANDON Justice (deserved penalty).
Why?
MANKIND DESERVES PENALTY. (Sin=Death).
Why?
GOD'S STANDARD OF JUSTICE demands it!
Stop right here and go no farther.
Unless you understand this pivotal condition you'll never understand what is illogical and illegal and immoral about GRACE as presented by theology.
If God abandons His standard of Perfect, Balanced, Fair, Proportioned Justice He ceases to be a JUST God!
Why? Law balances Good against Performance of Good.
Grace negates it. It implodes it. It destroys it.
Why? There is no precedent for UNfair fairness!
Once you abandon the standard of Goodness you destroy the basis of all judgement of good vs evil.
Why? If Good is good because it is fair and Evil is bad because it is unfair; abandoning that standard is deuces wild and willy nilly destruction of standard by performance!
If a perfect, non-sinning Jesus MUST RECEIVE PUNISHMENT and unrighteous, sinning man is EXONERATED there is no Justice because there is no fair application of DESERVE. There vanishes EARNED reward. Value is destroyed. Equivalence is obliterated. Balance is overthrown.
God ceases to be Righteous!
The opposite of a Standard is an Ad Hoc, arbitrary, summary action. In other words: chaotic.
GRACE, in effect, accuses God of chaos and injustice while calling it "mercy."
.
journey-on

Whew! What a read!
Sounds like One Big Game with lots and lots of rules, conditions that create exceptions to the rules, various levels of players, ways to advance to the next level, methods to earn or lose points, ways to earn rewards or give rewards, and, of course, fairies, wizards, and dragons along the way on the journey.
Terry

Whew! What a read!
Sounds like One Big Game with lots and lots of rules, conditions that create exceptions to the rules, various levels of players, ways to advance to the next level, methods to earn or lose points, ways to earn rewards or give rewards, and, of course, fairies, wizards, and dragons along the way on the journey.
Yes. I think there is a good reason for this.
I think a lot of the "technical" theology of the Gospels and such was inserted layer by layer by retelling and accretions which are not the product of ONE MIND telling ONE TRUE FACT.
It is like a group of people who don't know each other walking into the kitchen and tasting the soup; each adding a bit of this and a pinch of that.
You see, there were plenty of brilliant minds in the First Century Roman empire who heard the Jesus stories and reacted from a neutral logical training.
The input, objections, questions and desire for clarification IMPACTED the next retelling of a Jesus story.
It is a kind of natural selection for survival of the story to make it believable.
JESUS HAD TO MEAN SOMETHING REALLY BIG to be worth believing in and serving and dying for.
He went from modest Rabbi with a pacifist love message to a soul-winning savior of all mankind who just happened to be the secret Clark Kent to Jehovah's Superman.
Terry

A thought...on the fly, as it were....
Jesus, in giving up his life as a sacrifice, was merely making a charitable deduction on his "taxes" so to speak. Why?
What Jesus paid was returned to him within 3 days with interest!
Instead of the Pawn Shop owner being delivered payment plus interest we have the payment (Jesus' life) being returned plus interest to the one redeeming!
The simple analogy doesn't work no matter how you think about it!!
journey-on

.....and, getting back to the game analogy, add the forming of alliances and the implementing of strategies. You alluded to this, perhaps unintentionally, when you brought up people working together to keep the "story" alive. Our problem is we aren't sure what the game is really all about and what the TRUE objective is. We get mixed signals. As I said, we individually gravitate toward a group or philosophy, but if it becomes suspicious or ill-fitting, we have to use our Free Will to either continue with guarded eye, or move away from it toward something else.
Jesus DOES mean something big. But what? Was he a modest Rabbi? Was he a Master Teacher with clues for us? Was/Is he The Saviour? Or, Is/Was he a red herring? Individually we have to make a decision as to which alliance/group we will proceed with. Or, we can choose to go rogue or form our own alliance.
Terry

Jesus died over TWO THOUSAND years ago.
Nobody else has seen him since then provably.
What was written down about him crumbled into trash heaps. Nothing at all remains of the originals!
That is a clue! Nothing was preserved.
It is ASSERTED copies OF copies existed.
How accurate those were is unprovable.
To base civilization upon partially reconstructed ideas that were bizarre and supernatural to begin with IS JUST ASKING FOR CRAZINESS to enter your life!
PSacramento

Interesting notion of Grace.
Here is how I understand it:
Man had it all, Man choose to "do it for himself" sans' God's help.
Problem is that Man was created to be complet WITH God and to do it WITH God, hence man trying to do it for himself, doesn't work, as we have pleanty of evidence to see that.
Humans, because of our nature, don't do anything without ulterior motives, as such, any act worth of salvation is dones for that reason, not doing good for goodness sake but doing good for recompense.
As such God gave us a free gift, His grace and salvation, given freely- think a parents unconditonal love for their child and multiply by infinity.
Yet God, by his own rules, doesn't force his grace on us, it is given freely, what we do with it is up to Us, FREE WILL- the cause of the fall and our redemption from it.
Thing is, NO MAN could have paid the price for Grace NOR did God ASK it, so what did God do?
Since God knew there was no way for Man to get "up there", God came "down here" and Paid the price HIMSELF.
Just liek any other parent would.
He did it via his Son, His Divine word and did it not only to pay the price, but to lead by example.
The resurection is irrelevant to the price paid because, under grace, the ressurection is for everyone also, just like Christ.
Ressurection to love and oneness with God for the just and ressurection to judgment for the unjust.
No Room For George

Adam possessed all of mankind in his testicles. ( I know, it sounds weird, but stay with me...)
LOL, this made me choke. Terry, you have to do analogy on, Works, but that might be too simple.
Terry

As such God gave us a free gift, His grace and salvation, given freely- think a parents unconditonal love for their child and multiply by infinity.
If there are no "conditions" for appraisal there can be no fault found; consequently, no sin and no death.
But, the history of the world is filled with death.
Demons, we are told, were sons of God. Is God's love for them as "unconditional?" Does free grace abound for them?
The purported "perfection" of a human is only as good as is demonstrated. The same is true of Goodness in Jesus. It is only as true as it is demonstrated.
Behavior makes it true.
But, man has always had CONDITIONS to meet for behavior.
Any behavior which does not MEET THOSE CONDITIONS results in condemnation--by who? God. The "unconditional" lover.
Something is awry!
Either God has a standard and insists on it (thus making him just and righteous) or He holds no conditions and consequences are a mere commuted sentence away (faith.)
Since when is asking for Faith not a "condition"?
PSacramento

If there are no "conditions" for appraisal there can be no fault found; consequently, no sin and no death.
condtions for appraisal?
But, the history of the world is filled with death.
Demons, we are told, were sons of God. Is God's love for them as "unconditional?" Does free grace abound for them?
Grace is God's love and open to all, BUT Christ did warn of what happens when we reject God.
Not God rejecting Us, US rejecting God.
Of course to reject we must first KNOW and God's Sons did indeed KNOW and their pride still led them to reject.
The purported "perfection" of a human is only as good as is demonstrated. The same is true of Goodness in Jesus. It is only as true as it is demonstrated.
Behavior makes it true.
But, man has always had CONDITIONS to meet for behavior.
Any behavior which does not MEET THOSE CONDITIONS results in condemnation--by who? God. The "unconditional" lover.
Confusing justice with love?
Grace is given freely, but justice is what we must face for our sins, one has nothing to do with the other.
Something is awry!
Either God has a standard and insists on it (thus making him just and righteous) or He holds no conditions and consequences are a mere commuted sentence away (faith.)
Again, Grace and Justice are not the same thing. Grace doesn't cancell out Justice, it gives meaning to justice.
Since when is asking for Faith not a "condition"?
Faith is given freely to God, just as grace is given freely FROM God.
I have faith in God BEACUSE of Grace, not to HAVE grace.

PAWN SHOP (grace)

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