Jesus was just a man? (page 9)

godrulz

sheep: hell is a place of separation for selfish sinners, not a medieval Dante torture chamber.

Think About It

Hell is a place of separation for selfish sinners, not a medieval Dante torture chamber.

You drone on and on about biblical, historical, orthodox Christianity, yet the proof of their beliefs was they thought hell was a Dante torture chamber. Did you get "new light"? Did you get some kind of Joseph Smith modern-day revelation? Your belief on this is anything, but biblical, historical or orthodox. Does a person need to belief this also in order to be saved or is this just as essential as believing the Trinity?

Think About It

NewChapter

(refutes JW spirit recreation in favor of biblical physical resurrection/glorification...sorry again for WT allusion

First let me point out, you NEVER need to reference WT to prove your point. I don't. Why do you?

TOUCH me and see; a ghost (WT spirit idea) does NOT have flesh and bones, as you see I have.

This particular argument doesn't hold much water biblically, simply because spirit creatures OFTEN manifested with fleshly bodies. I'm thinking of angels that left heaven and actually procreated. Angels that ate with Abraham. Angels that grabbed Lot's hand, things like that. So the fact that they touched Jesus and felt flesh and bone does not support the argument that he was not a spirit being. Choose another argument.

Was Jesus misleading them with apparitions or was He making factual statements (glorified bodies like the saints will have can eat/drink, but not need bathroom; they are not immaterial, nor are they flesh/blood natural/mortal).

Okay what scripture tells you that glorified bodies can eat and drink but not use the bathroom? Are you sure this resurrected Jesus used the bathroom? Are you sure materialized angels did not? They procreated after all.

We should conform our views to the Bible instead of changing the Bible to match our views

You seem to be adding a lot of narration in between scriptures---explaining them. Make the bible explain itself. Why should I believe that materialized spirit people didn't use the bathroom and yet they procreated? Why should I believe the resurrected Jesus DID use the bathroom, (I'm assuming you think this because his literal body was raised)

Just support those assumptions. By the way, I really don't care what Muslims, Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses believe on these. It's not relevent. Can you prove your point is right without pointing out the wrong in others? If I'm teaching a child to write, I don't have to show him all the ways to writen incorrectly. Follow me?

NC

NewChapter

The reason I spend any time at all challenging closed minds like godrulz is that he will likely vote for the most 'christian' candidate; that would be Michelle Bachmann, the craziest candidate out there, just because she hits his sweet spots: Jesus, no abortion, less funding for public schools, more influence from christian sources on government.

Happily he's Canadian.

godrulz

I am Canadian, so cannot vote for Michelle. Separation of church/state was originally meant to keep the state out of the church, not the church out of the state. If we do not legislate immorality, we tend to legislate immorality. Those who push for abortion are no different than those who oppose it. We are not a theocracy, but there is no reason to default to things that harm society. Freedom of religion is not freedom from religion. Christians tolerate atheists in the public square, but Christians are generally discriminated against and silenced. Christians in the U.S. are making a mistake by thinking politics is the answer instead of the gospel that changes individual hearts, families, communities, cities, nations.

NewChapter

Christians tolerate atheists in the public square, but Christians are generally discriminated against and silenced

That is truly a crock! You need your persecution complex, but entire governments and school systems are framed around Christian beliefs. When atheists ask to be left alone, to not have to be pressured into group prayers, to not be bound by judeo/christian morals, THAT's persecution to a Christian. I'm living in a state that is methodically chipping away at my rights in the name of Christianity. But YOU"RE persecuted. And as far as SILENCED---I WISH.

I wish you were persecuted. Maybe it would shut you up. But you never did answer my response to Jesus raised in the flesh.

NC

THE GLADIATOR

Christians tolerate atheists in the public square, but Christians are generally discriminated against and silenced

Christians were only silenced in the Roman arena.

Since then they have become very vocal and irritating but I love them all - it is what Zeus demands!

godrulz

I did answer your resurrection question from Jn. 2 and Lk. 24 and I Cor. 15. Did you miss it or do you have another post/topic I missed?

I can't believe you are a lady. I thought you were a guy. So sorry. I think atheists and theists both have something to whine about in relation to rights/gov't. Perhaps we can work together?

NewChapter

count up six posts godrulz. I don't think you proved your point from the scripture.

NC

godrulz

thinkaboutit: WT presents a straw man view of hell as a place worse than an evil person torturing dogs and babies with a pitchfork. The goodness and love of God precludes this. Hell is real as well as the torment there, but it is not a medieval torture chamber. This is a wrong view of relational separation from God. We do not have detailed revelation of heaven or hell, but heaven is better than we can imagine and hell is probably worse. Believing in hell is not a salvific issue. Anglican John Stott is a prominent Christian who changed his view to annihilationism. Rob Bell is in hot water for his apparent denial of hell, yet I don't doubt his salvation. The bottom line is what did Jesus/Bible say about it? Cults attack the truth of it; those who deny it don't negate it. I have been consistent in my view of rejecting it as the equivalent of boiling babies in oil or that it does not exist in reality.

newch., I missed that post, sorry. Angels did temporarily take on forms. The incarnation and resurrection of Christ is not in this temporary category. Tim. calls the glorified Christ, the man Christ Jesus. He is the God-Man forever. He was God in pre-existence. The incarnation is not a Docetic illusion, but Deity adding humanity. Resurrection from Gen. to Rev. is always physical, bodily (spirit resurrection is an oxymoron). Recreation is not resurrection. Jesus is not an angel and his form is permanent, not temporary. I will stick with the argument because Jesus said He was raising his body (temple, like our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit) and said it was He, Himself, not an apparation or recreation. He did not manufacture the nail prints. They show continuity with our new body (we will recognize loved ones in heaven, but my wife won't be in a wheelchair, amputees will get limbs, etc.). Jesus ate fish/bread after the resurrection. The Marriage Supper of the Lamb after our resurrection will also involve food. Since we have glorified spirit bodies, I speculate that we will not get fat, not get acne, not need to eliminate waste. It does say there will be no more dying, illness, injury, etc., so why not no more potty breaks (nuisance). Our bodies will not be mortal, but they will be spirit bodies (not immaterial like angels).

I would also point out that Gen. 6 Nephilim is disputable. I don't think demons procreated with men. I believe it refers to a godly line and ungodly line of humans breeding, not angels/demons/humans (genetic giants, not aliens). Even if spirit creatures/humans, it is still not the same as the Deity, virgin conception/incarnation, death, resurrection, ascension of Jesus, a unique situation, front to back without parallel.

A glorified body can eat according to Scripture. I don't think it needs to breath oxygen, have a circulatory or reproductive system, an elimination system. The former is biblical and the latter is plausible/probable speculation (so not dogmatic). The Bible does not deal with every detail about everything. It does say we will be like angels and not marry or procreate (Mormons are wrong), so there is another parameter. I don't think we will have sperm, etc. since procreation is off the table (except those who go into the millennium from the Tribulation in natural bodies).

Equally capable, godly believers differ on things that are not explicitly resolved in Scripture. We do not have cultic uniformity/group-think, but we do have love and unity on the essentials.

This is a moot, academic point compared to doctrine of God, Christology, soteriology (salvation). Let us major on majors instead of minors (and not minor on majors).

I appreciate that even if you now reject God/Bible that you would want to understand it. I think the Bible will stand up to scrutiny, but the Book of Mormon, Koran, etc. will not.

Jesus was just a man?

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