So much to comment on/respond to, here (may you all have peace!), and one particular post has almost reduced me to tears (I will identify that in a sec). My apologies for the delay in responding; had "hard" last couple of nights (due to mind-blowing pain - anyone got any suggestions on how to "manage" that? Can't take the oxycontin or Norco they gave me... and the Tylenol 3's - up to 1.5 per dose - aren't helping any longer!! Sucking it up best I can... but not always successful... and typing seems to exacerbate the problem - Oy! But gonna respond to all that I can, here, so thanks for indulging me).
First, to dear Nick (the greatest of love and peace to you, dear one!):
It is not my intent to bait anyone but to understand something I at present do not.
Lordy, I know just what you mean... and it truly confuses me that some perceive a different motive. Cannot someone simply be asking... simply to be ASKING? Not trying to "start" something or get others' chonies in a bunch, but just because you REALLY want to understand (even if that means HOW another thinks/perceives and not necessarily WHAT they think/perceive). Some of these discussions would go SO much... ummmmm... easier... if every just condescended to give each other the benefit of the doubt (that there is no covert motive, but just a healthy desire to UNDERSTAND... whatever it is they're trying to understand).
Faith prevents one from seeking alternative conclusions, and that is why the faithful cannot see what I see.
Could a believer not say the same of an unbeliever... that faith ALLOWS us to see... and LACK of faith is "why the UNfaithful cannot see what [we] see?"
you want me to believe? Show me.
Two things, here, dear one. First, He (God) did show you - all [you] need do is look at Christ... AND NOTHING/NO ONE ELSE. Focus your view on that one. However, second, it is [your] refusal to do that... look at him... because of looking at religion/the Bible (and how THOSE have "painted" God), that prevents you from seeing CHRIST. It is really no different for non-believers... than those who SAY they "see" and have faith... but do not (as to both).
To dear Tec (the greatest of love and peace to you, too, dear one!):
it is easier to turn the other cheek when its YOUR cheek being slapped... not when its someone else's. I think we tend to come to another person's defense more often than we tell them to turn their cheek)
Which is no different from our Lord. The rare times he did speak up/act out/respond in opposition... was when the matter involved someone else: the money changers, turning the Father's temple into a den of robbers; the disciples who couldn't expel a demon from a tortured boy, due to their lack of faith; the religious leaders, for misleading the people. He lashed out at the first, assertived "checked" the second... and even scathingly called the third names ("hypocrites"... "offspring of vipers"... and more).
It was with regard to HIMSELF... that he remained quiet (a lamb going to slaughter)... and turned the other cheek ("Father, forgive them..."). Regarding others, he spoke up when, in HIS opinion, the occasion called for it. Paul openly "checked" Peter (heck, he had quite a bit to scathingly say to the Corinthians, did he not? LOLOL!).
Unfortunately, false religions teaches christians as/to be passive and complacent at all times (which is neither true nor required, at all)... and so when one asserts oneself, they are accused of passive-aggressiveness. To be expected, of course, because we humans... and particularly "intellectuals"... LOVE to put labels on everything... and everyone. The thing that this does, though, is multifold: first, it is just another form of "control" that others try to use over their fellowman ("Ooh, you're passsive-aggressive, which is almost like being a criminal!"). Of course, those playing at being "christian" get scared and go, "Oh, NO! I am being/acting like "something" others think I shouldn't be/act like! I must STOP!" But if one IS a christian (by means of anointing with holy spirit)... such things do not dictate - one simply TRIES to follow Christ, by the leadings of holy spirit. And sometimes, that means not being able to withhold indignation - particularly when another appears to have been wronged.
Second, it creates yet another "Oh, no, I'm not/don't do..." regulation for others. Third, that one is "passive" under most circumstances, but WILL stand up and speak out in another... isn't a bad thing. Nor does it mean when the one speaks out that they're being "aggressive." In most cases, such ones are actually only being "assertive" (which is why the omission of that category - passive/assertive - is misleading). It simply means that, while most issues don't take you there, some do... and most probably should. It DEPENDS, then, on what issues bring out such assertiveness.
I mean, heck, Peter literally cut off a man's ear when he perceived Christ being attacked! Moving on...
To dear Awen (the greatest of love and peace to you, too!):
I think I will bow out of this topic. It's far beyond my limited education and some of the jargon I don't quite comprehend.
The wonderful thing here, though, dear Awen, is that the OP didn't ask for you to intellectualize... but simply give your point of view, which you did. It is unfortunate, IMHO, that some responders couldn't have just said, "Well, okay, I don't agree... but that's his POV and he's more than welcome to it." Unfortunately, they viewed the questions posed as a opportunity for THEM to "debate" what you, I, and others believe... which I didn't get to be the point of the thread.
For us (believers), it was going to a be no-win situation, no matter how we responded: we were asked to state our sincere perspectives, which we tried to do. While I think the OP appreciated that, I am not so sure that others were even capable of that: taking our views at face value and moving on. The sad thing is that such ones are usually very convinced that those believers who do NOT state their positions don't because they're "afraid" of debate or that their positions will be shown as fallacy. They don't understand that most of don't (and I am considering that I most probably won't after this)... because it usually turns out to be an arena for being attacked. "They" (excluding the OP) don't really WANT to know what we believe... and why: they really only want us to put it out there so that they can attack and discredit it. Some apparently "live" for such opportunity. I can only conclude that these don't have much more means for "excitement" in their lives... and so debating (well, not even debating, actually, but attacking) that which they have come to hate... and those who still have faith in it... brings them some kind of joy.
Our dilemma? Whether or not to deprive them of this joy...
Finally, dear Size... the greatest of love and peace to you, as well! It was your last post... and dear Tec's response ("YES!")... that almost brought tears to my eyes. Because, as I have said many times, science simply cannot explain the things of the spirit [realm] NOW... because it currently does not have the TOOLS to do so... but I have never proffered that it never will. The theory that you refer to, however, actually BOLSTERS what I believe: that we are NOT solely physical... and so NOT restricted to the perceptions of the five PHYSICAL senses: there are other senses... and just a cursory observation of animals (meaning wild and domestic beasts) should tell us that, if science doesn't. If we, humans, are a bit "higher" than animals... yet, these can perceive, in SO many ways that we can't... shouldn't THAT tell us that we're not tapping into all that we have at our disposal... that it is WE who are limiting ourselves?
Yet, Christ, taught BEYOND the body of flesh. We think science is liberating us. And, in some manners, it is. However, it is also LIMITING us... because it says, thus far, that unless we can perceive it with at least one of the five physical senses... it does not exist! This is fallacy... and so limiting as to what we TRULY are... and what we can truly DO. We are NOT just our bodies of flesh; we are also the CONTENTS of that vessel. And just as we can realize and perceive with our PHYSICAL bodies... the "man" we are on the OUTSIDE... we can, to an even greater sense, with our SPIRIT, the "man" we are on the INSIDE.
But why DON'T we? Because there are those who tell us that we CAN'T... and we BELIEVE them. Which is why, IMHO, I can't see much difference between science... and religion. BOTH have agendas: to limit/restrict us, in some form or another. BOTH bind us... to THIS realm. Science, through its limitations TO this realm... and religion, by its LIES as to the spirit realm.
I am hoping, with all of my heart... that either my Lord returns... or theories such as the one you refer to "find" him... so that it can all be put to rest once and for all.
As to the theory itself, it is actually quite accurate:
Christ, the Light... is not only the Source of all physical matter, which is really nothing more than materialized energy... but he is the MEANS by which, through which... and the One FOR which... the physical world was brought into existence. He is the PURE ENERGY... because he is the FULL essence of God: His BLOOD, BREATH, and SEMEN (seed)... the ENERGY... by means of which all that is PHYSICAL came into being... and exists. That very energy (blood/breath/semen)... is what CREATES physical matter.
The "big bang" was the RESULT... of his "BIRTH" - his EXIT from the spirit realm/ENTRY into THIS realm... which caused the CREATION of the physical universe and its matter. It was, per OUR perceptions, a very tiny event; however, the amount of ENERGY that was involved was astronomical. It HAD to be a tiny event, however, and then EXPAND (which is why God is said to have "STRETCHED OUT the heavens"); otherwise, the amount of ENERGY involved... would have annihilated EVERYTHING: this world AND that one.
He was "born"... when he left the "womb" of the "Woman" (the spirit realm)... and came into this world (the physical realm), initially. And it wasn't just a minor event - again, the ENERGY expended to do that... resulted in the creation of the physical world! Why did he come into this world? To bring with him... and hide... the OTHER seed of that Woman.
What some people have the hardest time grasping is that these are PERSONS (not "people", i.e., humans). The reason for this difficulty is because they cannot grasp the concept of a consciousness... outside of some kind of EMBODIMENT. Usually, a human or animal body. Funny, they are beginning to grasp it, though, as to a manmade or artificial embodiment. But unless it has some kind of physical BODY... they just can't perceive it. And that is the folly: not all consciousness must be housed in a physical body/vessel! Indeed, spirit beings... while able to put ON physical bodies, are not ordinarily "housed" in such.
The inability to perceive these truths, however, is the fault of both science and religion. Science, in that it attemps to LIMIT our understanding and perceptions solely to that which IS physical... which is enslaving: it does not allow us to perceive BEYOND... although WE are much more than our physical vessels. It attempts, however, to bind us to that vessel and only that which it (the vessel) can perceive. It does not ALLOW for perceptions by the CONTENTS of that vessel... the "man" we are on the INSIDE. Religion, too, attempts to enslave us... but by teaching false premises regarding the spirit and things beyond the physical body. For example, that we are only spirit AFTER we leave the body of flesh. That is a LIE - we were spirits BEFORE such vessels, while IN such vessels... and will be after putting off (for those that do) such vessels.
Both science and religion keep us from TRULY transcending, however. Science, by its limitations to only that which is physical... and religion through its misunderstandings, misteachings, and misguidings as to the spiritual. Which is why I often say they are similar. I get that many don't SEE this... but it's BECAUSE of such limitations that they DON'T. For them, unless science PROVES that we are more than our physical bodies, we are not. How limiting! Yet, such ones believe themselves to be "free"... more so than those who ascribe to religion. The truth, however, is that both are limited, restricted, enslaved. Neither can move BEYOND the flesh NOW.
Perhaps science will one day crack the mystery... and find God. But why wait? He's there and can be found NOW: all one has to DO... is go to Him THROUGH Christ. Yes, to do that, one must BELIEVE... that one CAN do so... and have FAITH that Christ will allow him IN. While I have personally found that to be the SIMPLER "way" to go... I have learned that, apparently, it's not the easiest for most.
Bottom line: it all really just depends on how fast one wants to get there... and by what means.
Again, the greatest of love and peace to you all!
A slave of Christ, the TRUE Light... and pure energy source of God,
SA
