Greetings, and may you all have peace! Dear Nick, the greatest of love and peace to you! Please let me say that I would not change a single word of dear Tec's (the greatest of love and peace to you, as well, dear one!) comments: I agree vehemently with them all. I would like to expand upon them, though, if you will permit me - thank you!
People believe in Yahweh because of the Bible.
This is what dear tec and I have been trying to help you and some here understand, dear one: SOME people believe in "Yahweh" (even "God") because of the Bible. However, neither she nor I... nor many others... believe in "Yahweh", the god portrayed in the Bible. Answering only for myself, I believe in the Most Holy One of Israel... JAH of Armies ("JaHVeH")... and yes, there is a difference. A HUGE different. While there are some things in the Bible that are accurate about Him, a GREAT deal of what is in there is NOT accurate, not even truthful.
Even so let's, for the sake of this discussion, say we're talking about the same Person (we are not, though, and I will expound on that in a sec), MANY believed... long before the Bible was canonized as we know it (in the 3rd/4th centure CE). More than that, MANY believed... long before the FIRST Bible version (the Septuagint) was compiled (in the 3rd/4th centure BCE). What many don't know is that at lease one ancient pharaohs (before Moses) believed in the Most Holy One of Israel. Because at least one acknowledged that "God" (and not "one of our gods") was "with" Joseph. Yes, this account in included in the Bible; however (1) it was orally passed down long before it was written down (so the Bible was not the only way THESE folks believed in JAH); (2) the Egyptian history would have certainly attempted to discredit any MYTH that a Hebrew who was a son of Israel (Jacob), the son of Isaac... was second only to a pharaoh in Egypt, and, (3) if not Egypty, then certain the world of Islam (descendants of Abraham's other son by Hagar, Ishmael, who, at some point, came to consider Isaac his "enemy").
And many believe NOW... and it has absolutely nothing to do with the Bible.
Belief in Yahweh comes from nowhere else.
In "Yahweh"... "Jehovah"... "THE LORD"... perhaps not. But until you understand that our faith in not IN the "God" of the Bible... you're not really going to ever understand WHY our faith can stand... in light of what Hubbel and other "evidence" presented in the PHYSICAL world.
God does some very human things in the Bible.
"He" does. But that is not true of the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies. Because what His SON is recorded to have done (also "in the Bible") was most NON-human: healing sick, feeding crowds, walking on water, turning water to wine, resurrecting the dead... and resurrecting himself... are not things humans can do (on their own, sans holy spirit). If one looks, then, at the "God" of the OT... one is going to see the vengeful, vindictive, hastily offended, kick ass and takes names later "God"... created by Israel.
IF, however, one looks at the IMAGE and "exact representation" of the Most Holy One of Israel... JAH of Armies... one will see an entirely different "reflection", no? And one doesn't have to do that by reading the Bible (although, if one lacks faith, one CAN look there... for a start, I guess, but even so, the "image" appears more a with brushed nickel than polished chrome).
Some sociopathic and psychopathic things, too.
Indeed! Which is what caused ME great consternation: how can the God and Father of "Jesus Christ" be and act how He was/did in the OT... while "Jesus" is saying that everything HE did he learned from his Father, that "just as [he] saw the Father doing [he] did", that he "did nothing of his own initiative, but only what he saw the FATHER doing"? Didn't make sense. Even more, how could this kind, loving person... who healed the sick, fed the poor, taught love, etc., be the SAME "person" the WTBTS was running around telling everyone they were following... while virtually NEVER referring to him, speaking to/of him, directing people to him... and treating not only their "enemies" reprehensibly... but even their own flesh?!! How could that BE? THAT... didn't make sense to me.
MUCH more than science proving this and not proving that, I was concerned with how religion (and particularly "christianity", and more particularly, the WTBTS) "acted", in light of claims to know, represent, follow, belong to, believe in, and be a disciple of Christ. And what most confused ME is, while a JW... why "we" made "Jehovah" the focus... when "the Bible" says that HE said... and His Son said... to listen to, follow, laud, bow down before, honor, glorify... and bear witness... to the SON.
So... I asked. And although the answers I received are largely included in the Bible, they are not ALL included there... nor, I found, was all that was in the Bible even TRUTH, let alone accurate. And so, as you have seen me post here on MANY occasions... I only use the Bible for those who would not believe what I shared... as well as who I received it from... UNLESS I referred to where it "says so 'in the Bible'."
In this thread, however, I have shared things that are NOT obviously delineated in the Bible. Indeed, more of sounds closer to... wait for it... SCIENCE (yes, I know - science "fiction"). But it's not fiction, at all... AND... it IS... ALL... written down. Somewhere. But not necessarily in the Bible. Or in ANY "holy" book we know of right now.
How is he any different from all the other gods humankind has abandoned along the way?
For one, He manifests Himself... through His Son... to those with faith. Not through a book or through traditions and stories.
you offer no evidence to support this, Tammy.
That's not accurate, dear one. Both dear tec and I... and others... have offered that there IS evidence: His Son, for one. That you and others REFUSE to consider the evidence offered... because it is not PHYSICAL and so cannot be "proven" pursuant to the proscriptions of what it takes to prove something PHYSICAL... is our fault, how?
The Bible is boring, has a choppy plot and story line and an even more disappointing climax.
I would agree. I would also offer, however, that the Bible is not a "book," per se, which is why so many confuse THEMSELVES when [trying to] read it. It is a [very small] library... of writings, histories, records, chronologies, letters, accounts, prophecies, and revelations. And just as with EVERY library created by MAN... it includes technical writings, science, math, history, poetry, music, fiction... and non-fiction. And just like every such library, EVERY book/writing in it is not necessarily beneficial to the purpose at hand. You don't need to read every book in the library to know how to catch steelhead. Or bass. Or tuna.
And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!
Obviously, the author was speaking of clergy (and so, was absolutely right!)... as well as those who follow them. Neither applies, however, to the Body of Christ: (1) there is no clergy (we have on leader... and each of us try to consider ourselves "least" ones, rather than teachers/masters over any other; and (2) we're not fanatics, by any stretch. You are absolutely free to "hear" what we share... or "refrain." No Armageddon, if you don't. No fire and brimstone because you wouldn't. A prayer, perhaps, yes, but that's about as "fanatical" as it gets.
Anyway, just my $0.02 in a wonderful discussion and, again, peace to you!
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
