by Nemesis 67 Replies latest jw experiences
Truly, madly, deeply.
*sigh*
Oh God, how long must I put up with these wicked and ignorant believers? With every new speculation, they insult you, they lay bare your nakedness with every demon inspired utterance coming forth from their specially created pie-holes.
When I hear such spiritual masturbation, if You exist, my very kidneys long to vindicate... er... sanctify Your name. What was Your name again?
SixofNine:
Then again, you think spirits are communicating with you. Do you believe everyone who says spirits are communicating with them? Do you think some of those people are crazy? Do you think all of them are really in contact with spirits? If not, how do you make a distinction?
Good point SixofNine: As for “everyone” then I would say an obvious no, but I would not expect an average person with no mental illness or erratic behaviour to be in the same league as the schizophrenic, or the spaced out tripper on LSD. I supposed my distinction is that I have no history of mental illness; I am not controlled by these experiences, and to all intense and purpose I have a “normal” average life. I have had medical test to check that I have no other known problems, or a brain tumour etc. My health is fine at present [thank God] so I cannot attribute any of it to some brain disorder.
Nathan Natas:
I'm an atheist. I believe that there is no supernatural world populated with any sort of "spirit" beings. That would include gods, their offspring, demons, ghosts and forest sprites, among others. Everything that man has is a direct consequence of this MIND and his LABOR - nothing has ever materialized from "the aether" to benefit man.Nathan Natas and rem: I cannot prove their reality anymore than you or anyone can prove there is no God. All I can say is as for dreams I pay little attention to them, as they are so subjective, but experiences while awake, they are sometime just as real as someone sat in front of me talking, and other times far more real. I have a question for Nathan: seeing as you are an atheist, do you believe there are other dimensions to time and space in regard to science? Do you feel we know enough of the universe[s] to be dogmatic and state there is not other realm, with life forces, entities in that realm? And how do you reconcile that with all the complex life you see here on earth seeing as you don’t believe it was designed and put here for a purpose?
I am open to all interpretation on [spirits], but do believe in a God. I have studied the sciences and evolution theory in detail and find it massively lacking not just in objective rational evidence but it’s overwhelming base on unsubstantiated theory, which constantly contradicts the observable realities of the world, in regard to chemistry, and physics. If even for the evolutionist who believe such a universe like ours can self create from dynamic physics, [even though the propensity is not to high level advanced complexity, but the reverse], How can you refuse to consider another realm of differing [physics] which has life forms in it—like a spirit world? I know it’s far harder to prove, but is it any less reasonable than all of this that we know just self creating and constructing even though that goes against what we see everyday in life?
Thank you all for your welcomes, they are much appreciated. I still have a lot of JW issues in my head that cause me much pain and stress. I hope in time they will be resolved. I appreciated your responses, and any more to come.
Thank you all,
Not trying to be an asshole here...But hallucinations tend to be symptom of a psychotic process (i.e., schizophrenia, can occur during mania, depression, etc.). It can be treated. I don't presonally believe in any sort of spirits, so my opinion's biased anyway.
"Brother, you better get down on your knees and pay...a thousand more fools are being born every f***ing day" -Bad Religion
If we're discussing spirits, can I ask why there is not one piece of incontravertable evidence as to their existence?
Loads of people have stories. I saw Lord of the RIngs again last night.
Some aspect of the perceived effect of these spirits might actually be external manisfestation of internal factors. Someone maybe is an empath of sorts, particulary attuned to other peoples emotions, perhaps not due to 'magic', but for the same reasons great musicians are born, not made; they're just better at doing what other people can do not quite as well. Maybe the person imagines these empathic insights come from an external source, or uses some externalised ceremony to prepare for concentrating.
So, I'm not saying 'oh, it's imagination', as I am sure to many it is real to them.
But a million people who believed in invisable purple bunnies would be laughed at, no matter what they said their bunnies did, and I don't see any difference between invisable purple bunnies and spirits.
If half the people who hear voices get locked up and called mad, what is the differentiator between their voices and the voices that others call spirits and admit to in polite company without fear of losing their liberty?
Why are people so eager to believe in that which cannot be proved? Isn't life a wonderful enough thing to figure out anyway?
People living in glass paradigms shouldn't throw stones...
Abaddon:
Why are people so eager to believe in that which cannot be proved?
You can say that about almost anything depending on what level of “evidence” you judge is enough for “proof”. I find it amusing that the concept of other life that we cannot see is scoffed at [I’m not referring to you, just generally] and yet we are supposed to accept that we somehow evolved when we haven’t been able to see even one single protein ever evolve/self create from basic chemicals. Man can make spaceships, aeroplanes, supercomputers, and all the other things in the world, but still fails to be able to make even a handful of proteins without relying on another life form like bacteria to do it for him. And yet we are supposed to believe that all the structures and organelles of a basic life form have just self-created from basic chemicals when we with all our advanced technology can’t even make the most basic building blocks, the proteins!
If you can really stretch your mind to believe the impossible, self-creation and evolution of organic life, then why is it such a fairy tail to conceive of other life that is on a separate level of reality? Do you remember the Watchtower’s quotes on germs a few years ago? They said they neither existed nor caused diseases. Why is it so weird to conceive that there is more to life than meets the eyes?
OOOOKKKKAAAAAAAAAYYYYY
well, I've read about some sleeping problem causing things to be seen, heard, etc. Many thing in our own mind we cannot comprehand, yet, but that doesn't mean that there are spirits....good or bad. Perhaps we made them up to explain what science couldn't at the time (to loosely quote a teenager), but we have it now.
Just talk to a medical professional about your problems, they may have an easy solution.
ashi
The closest thing to a "religious experience" I have ever had was my first bowel movement after hemorrhoid surgery. [>:(]
Seriously, at no time in my life have I ever encountered anything I would describe as "supernatural".
Believe in yourself, not mythology.
<x ><
Hi, Nemesis,
When it comes to spirits, visions, etc. it is a very simple matter. Those who have had them, believe in them. Those who haven't, usually mock those who say they have. God bless the open-minded who have not experienced them but are still willing to allow that they might be real in the lives of others.
Bang, what a great listing of dream verses. There are also verses about prophecying in the last days that go hand in hand with the dream verses. Despise ye not prophecying, that sort of thing. I suppose those verses had to be included because there have always been those who saw and heard things that others didn't and were ostrasized for it (spelling?).
Coming from a long line of women who have had dream visions, waking visions, etc., including beloved JW family members who do admit to still having those dreams. I know better than to be so quick to say someone else cannot be experiencing similar things. Those dreams and visions I have experienced have definitely been a gift from God in my life, and a blessing to my family. I am thankful for them.
Spirits, good and bad, are real. Your job seems to be learning how to deal with them in a way that is positive for you. Good luck in the journey.
Susan
Hi Nemesis, I believe there are spirits, good ones and bad ones. I don't know every vision or dream that gives you a strange feeling is caused by a spirit. I believe we have a sixth sense and it is strong in some and not so strong in others and practicly nonexistant in most.
I STRONGLY believe that.
Either way if this is an issue that has you concerned, like in a bad way, IMO there is no need to be all that concerned about it unless your hearing little voices in your head telling you to do really horrible things.
plm
Nemesis -
I am not sure I believe in spiritual entities. However, I am sure enough to be scared of the bad ones. Makes no sense, I know. When I was a little girl (11 or 12) I suffered from nightmares for a couple of weeks. Horrible, terrifying dreams where I would wake up crying out for Jehovah. There was no catalyst that I can think of. No family stress or scary movie. It just happened. That experience was enough for me to have a healthy respect for the possibility of spirits. I don't set out to have them help me nor do I mock their existence.
When reading your description a couple things come to mind. Maybe you could keep a simple log of when you have these experiences. It could help you pinpoint events that are A) making you more sensitive to their presence or B) identify stressors that are triggering a psychotic response. Either way, real or imagined, it seems like it would be a good idea to have some control over them.
You say that right now they aren’t derailing your life. But if they ever do start to take over, the more information you have about what’s going on, the better equipped you will be to deal with it.
Just a thought.
