Did the snake or serpent in the garden have free will?

by jam 36 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • james_woods
    james_woods

    It has always been interesting to me that - according to JW "bible mythology" - the water canopy that eventually caused the flood was always there during human history...even back as far as the garden of Eden.

    What was it there for?

    You could logically make the point that it is evidence that God had not only the fall from grace in the Garden but also the eventual flood fore-known...(you could also make the point that it is evidence that the witnesses left their brains on a shelf in the closet when science class was being taught) - but, back on the water canopy fantasy - what was it there for, if not to cause the flood?

    It always seemed like a bummer to me that (according to the witnesses), Adam, Eve, and everybody up to Noah's family never got to see the stars in the night sky because God was holding back enough water vapor to end up killing almost everyone in the flood.

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    dear Prodigal Son...

    you said: "No. Sometimes free will is interfered with by those who are selfish....It goes in astrological cycles as far as how much interference is allowed."...but this sounds like a "western" sweetening up of the "law" of karma...which you said that you didn't believe in.

    you said: "An "incarnate" must first find out what he is capable of before he can move forward. Staying stuck in restrictive mindsets will keep a person from evolving"...if Jesus was an exemplar of this type of thinking...how do you explain His dogmatisim?

    ..."They are mind-control Nazi-types and they know exactly what they are doing. They've bought up all the media and taken over educational curriculum. We have little chance without some serious soul-searching and investigation of various philosophies above and beyond the "status quo"... Humanity as a whole is ready to do exactly that.... once the dark and selfish elite are out of the way. Problem is they ain't going quietly but they've been check-mated and are currently negotiating to save their necks from the wrath of their victims."...you're actually a bit of a nut aren't you?

    love michelle

  • jam
    jam

    Lonewolf; That,s A story I could beleive, sound pretty

    good to me. Very funny.

  • tec
    tec

    Jam... do you think the tree of life represented a tree... or life? What about the tree of knowledge of good and bad. Was it a tree... or the symbol used in the story to represent good and bad. Eat an apple from the tree of knowledge of good and bad = eating from (learning from/knowing) good and bad. Same as Christ said to eat from him to have life... he didn't mean carve him up. He meant learn from and know Him.

    So I only mean that the things in the story symbolize what they are standing for.

    Serpent - Satan

    Tree of Life - Life

    Tree of knowledge of good and bad - Knowing good and bad.

    There is nothing to suggest that "Satan" possessed a random "snake", and that God decided to punish the snake instead of Satan.

    Very symbolic, Jam.

    Peace,

    Tammy

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    A couple/few things that might clear up your confusion and help you "see", dear Jam (peace to you!):

    1. There was no snake in the garden; there was a "serpent"... which is a "seraph"... a "fiery, flying serpent"... which is a spirit being;

    2. Adham didn't become literally "like God" by eating from the Tree [of the knowledge of good AND bad]; he was already LIKE God, having been made in God's image. He became "like God... KNOWING good AND bad"... meaning, KNOWING... life... AND death... and yet, still living... something only God... and other spirit beings... "knew" at the time. Because Death has NO hold on God... or spirit beings. These do not die - and that latter must be destroyed (which can only be done by "fire" - HEAT (energy/light) generated to a degree far beyond what is known in THIS world) in order to no longer exist.

    3. Eve was deceived into thinking that she COULD become like God... KNOWING good (life) AND bad (death)... and yet, live. Adham, however, was not. Rather, when he saw that Eve did NOT die... he tried to BUY that ability... FROM Death (via an agreement "mediated" through the Adversary, the seraph YOU know as "serpent", who is the "chief agent" of Death)... by selling his progeny: ALL life unique to OUR genus/species... that was generated THROUGH him...

    4. Adham/Eve "became" like God (knowing life AND death)... through unsanctioned means. Rather than waiting for GOD to elevate them to a point where they COULD know good (life) AND bad (death)... and NOT misuse/abuse that ability... they reached out and tried to take it for themselves. They obviously weren't mature enough, however, to have that ability. Indeed, Eve's being deceived... and Adham selling out his progeny as well as attempting to throw Eve under the bus afterward... shows this. Imagine what the two of them could have... WOULD have... wrought in the earth if indeed they had gotten back to the Tree [of LIFE]... and ate... so AS to live forever? For one, they would have joined with others... and sought to destroy the SEED [of the Woman] that Eve was carrying! Like that "serpent"... they would have desired the inheritance for themselves (well, Adham would have... and ditzy Eve would have followed him). But it wasn't his to have. Just as it wasn't ISHMAEL'S (the firstborn, from Hagar, the slave woman)... but ISAAC'S (the firstborn, and only-begotten son... of SARAH).

    Hagar represents the physical realm... and "earth"... AND the covenant pertaining to the flesh. A covenant made by means OF the flesh (thus, circumscision). Her children, starting with Adham... were and are slaves.

    Sarah, on the other hand... represents the SPIRIT realm... "Jerusalem Above"... and the covenant pertaining to the SPIRIT. A covenant made... by means of a PROMISE (and thus, "circumscision" of the HEART). Her children, starting with Christ... were and are FREE.

    If man, whose years are now 70 or so... dominates his fellowman as he does... even to his own injury... IMAGINE what would have resulted had this partially "completed" man "Adham" lived without death in his future? Worse than what was wrought by the offspring of the Nephilim!

    5. God didn't give us the Bible to "reveal the reality of satans plan and Gods counter plan". He gave us His Son. And so long as folks overlook that Son... due to their inability to look PAST the Bible... they will never see him. And as a result, they will never see God. Or His plan... and/or the events that led up to it, are playing out in and about it... or the end result of it.

    6. That "serpent" absolutely DID have free will... and was made perfect. The rotteness came to be in him... because HE put it there, not God: Ezekiel Chapter 28

    I hope this helps and, again, I bid you peace!

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

  • undercover
    undercover

    I think the snake operates under the will and power of Lord Voldemort, therefore the snake doesn't really have free will. It does what Voldemort tells him.

    Oh, wait...

    I got my fairy tales mixed up.

    Nevermind...

  • Twitch
    Twitch

    I don't know. Do the Keebler Elves really live in a tree?

    ;)

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