Criminal , new US ally

by Norm 125 Replies latest jw friends

  • Seeker
    Seeker

    Pat,

    Oh, too many to mention in detail, but I'll mention a few ways to keep up on things. First, some media principles:

    1. Almost all media is owned by transnational megacorporations. Whatever they say is filtered by the conservative nature of large organizations that want to avoid offending the masses so that they can sell more of their products. So when you are watching CBS News or reading the New York Times, you have to keep in mind their point of view. I read an intereview with the head of the News division of ABC, and he admitted that ABC could not run a story criticizing Disney, the transnational megacorp that owns ABC.

    2. The media is overwhelmingly conservative. The big lie of conservatives is that there is a liberal media. This is not true. This is a claim of right-wing conservatives who don't like the moderate conservative point-of-view. To them, anything except right-wing views is 'liberal.' In fact, a true liberal persepective is almost never allowed on mainstream media. You ususally get two perspectives: the 'conservative' perspective and the 'liberal' perspective, but both sides are actually conservative, just differing in their degree. Republicans are more right-wing than Democrats, but both are conservative. True liberals are marginalized to the point of disappearing from public discourse.

    So when you are watching or reading U.S. media, you are being told the offical party line, with occasional dissenting views that usually don't go very far or very deep or amount to all that much. An example of this: After 9/11, what did almost all media do very quickly? They pasted the American flag all over their screens. They reported the offical party line of the White House almost without exception. They ignored the possibility that bin Laden was not behind the attacks. They became an almost perfect outlet for political propaganda. The media isn't supposed to take sides, not even America's. It is supposed to sit outside petty political considerations and report facts. But remember point 1 above -- the media exists to make profits for a corporation, and corps know they will make more money by giving people what they want, and thus can then sell more soap. Right now, it pays to wave the flag, and so wave the flag the media does.

    When Russian news media did that during the Cold War, we called it government propaganda. So what do we call it now when the U.S. media does it?

    As for alternate sources, what I do is try to get both sides. If a story involves Britain, read the story in a British newspaper online too. If it involves the Arabic world, get news from over there. Yes, you are getting their version of propaganda, but only by comparing propaganda from both sides can you begin to discern patterns and truth. It helps, at least.

    I read The New Yorker, and Atlantic Monthly, in magazines, for somewhat alternative viewpoints. They aren't truly liberal sources, but they lean more in that direction, and thus offer a different perspective from the mainstream conservative media. If you want to see just how dumb Bush is, read the New Yorker articles about his ideas.

    If you want to know what's happening in globalization and economic forums, I like to check out www.indymedia.org for their alternative perspective. Now this is truly liberal news, and it is so vastly different from what passes as 'liberal' sources on mainstream press that you will truly see why the accusations of the "liberal media" is such a lie. Now, I think indymedia goes too far in that direction, but that's OK, it serves as a touchstone against which I can measure the conservative press. Only from indymedia, for example, would you learn about people being arrested for protesting economic summits and being held for weeks without charges. On the mainstream press, you'll learn about protests, and maybe a mention of some arrests. On indymedia, you'll learn what happnes to those arrested, and how the government illegally uses harrassment to discourage dissent. So by comparing both sides, you begin to get a glimmer of truth.

    No, I don't rush to all these news sources for every story. A kitten caught in the tree and rescused by firefighters can be reported by anyone. Only the important stories need this level of scrutiny.

    If you want extreme detailed analysis of U.S. propaganda, and specific, documented examples where the U.S. governement and the U.S. media lied to us, you might find the book Manufacturing Consent by Edward Herman and Noam Chomsky interesting. Conservatives criticize Chomsky in precisely the same way JWs criticize apostates. They claim Chomsky has an agenda, that his sources aren't true, and so on. But he provides so many footnotes you can go a library and see for yourself. He doesn't hide anything. So even if he has an agenda, which of course he does, he provides valuable evidence, fully documented, of times when you and I have been lied to. It's a bit mind-blowing, to be honest. This is where I read so much of the Latin American dirty tricks I've been talking about in this thread.

    Hope this helps. Remember, propaganda exists on all sides. Only by viewing both sides can we come to an approximation of truth.

  • bigboi
    bigboi
    Bigboi: you are immersed in delusion, and I have neither the time nor the inclination to bring you to reality. Your super-macho "Amerika wins" (versus the rest of the world) fantasies are sad.

    Okaaaaay.

    LOL! WW2 was principally about the spread of Nazism (and its Pacific counterpart). A distinction without a difference.
    Again u miss my point. My worn victor comment wasn't about a this US versus the World according to Hitler fantasy of your own making. It was abotu the circumstances the US faced upon it's entrance into the war. Which when you actually think about it wasn't as bad as one might think.

    Note, no data produced, no source referenced.
    OH and I thought you'd never notice.

    Real estate" is not an area of the economy. I knew you had to rely on some absurd extrapolation from what 1 square foot costs in Tokyo (putting aside the fact that if a lot became available, the price would plummet).
    So in other words you are saying that the value and sale of land and property is not an indicator of a country's economic activity or wealth? That's news to me.

    Asiatic Russia is half of Asia. Or did you think he would have just stopped at Moscow?
    Asiatic Russia is a place called Siberia. Even the Russians used the place mainly as one large prison ecampment. There is some quantity of Natura resources there, but fighting the certain resistance to Hitler and getting the are subdued to a point where he could put it's resources to any kind of effective use would've taken yrs to accompplish. Remember how Russia resisted the Nazis? They basically destroyed all the infrastructure behind them as they retreated. What makes you think they wouldn't have done that in the rest of the country?

    By threatening and then killing those who refused, and their families, and ... you seem unable to understand the mechanisms of terror. The resistance movements in Europe were - leaving aside Hollywood's make-believe - largely ineffective.
    You seem incapable of understanding what it would take to organize and lead the assault you imagine.

    How does Saddam stay in power in Iraq, now he has lost the support of his Big Brother the U.S.?
    We are not talking about Irag. That is one country in the Middle East. We are talking about one person ruling the entire world (or at least all of Europe) and getting those forces to cross 2 oceans and take over a nation of nearly 200 million ppl.

    And more .. By 1944 Hitler had fighting for him over half a million VOLUNTEERS and RECRUITS from the previously hostile countries he had conquered... and he could have had far more in the East, had he so wished.
    Why you mention this I have no idea. Of course some of the conquered ppl would have jumped on his bandwagon. That happens all the time in history. Napoleon too raised quite an Army to attack Russia. It was comprised of mostly foreign soldiers who promptly deserted him once the capaign ran into difficulties. Same thing would've happened to Hitler.

    Further American super-Jock delusions...

    "Our sacred soil".... hahahaha!

    No delusions, my friend. It's simple fact. Why didn't the Japanese attack the shores of America? Why did they stop at the military post of Pearl habor? The answer, because they knew that by simply arousing the American nation they had put themselves into serious shit. So, they hit us and ran. Never thinking we would be able to recover from the loss of the Pacific Fleet and they would be able to establish their Pacific Empire unencumbered by American intervention. Which is what they wanted from the get go. Just somehow, someway, keep the Americans out of it.

    No, no, he would have voluntarily stopped. He was well known for reasonableness and benevolence.
    Ok, back to Hitler. As I said before I doubt Hitler's conquests would have given him control of all the world's reesources. Besides the effort it would've taken to bring all that together would have been something that would have destined for disaster. Greater men than Hitler have tried and failed.

    ......you will be ignored by me......
    Thank you ever so much.

    ONE....

    bigboi

  • Valentine
    Valentine

    Hi pat!
    Just wanted to mention afew other rags that I like to read. The Nation,MotherJones,and the Village voice. I like dissenting views to issues. I too read the Guardian and other European publications for a fuller more global view of events.hugs,T

    Todays Affirmation:
    The complete lack of evidence is the surest sign that the conspiracy is working.

  • expatbrit
    expatbrit

    One other factor: if Hitler had been victorious in Europe, there would have been nothing to prevent the completion of his atomic weapons program, quite possibly ahead of the United States.

    All arguments about convential warfare become moot when a madman like Hitler gains atomic weapons.

    Expatbrit

  • bigboi
    bigboi

    Expatbrit:

    Good Point. We'd have been in real trouble then.

    ONE....

    bigboi

  • patio34
    patio34

    Hi Seeker,

    Thanks for that detailed post. I'll be sure to check it out. I thought i was doing well by reading other newspapers out of state, for crying out loud! Ah well, i'll use being outta the dubs for only the past year as an excuse.

    Hi Tina,

    Thanks for the recommendations. I appreciate it and will check them out.

    Pat

  • Seeker
    Seeker

    pat,

    I thought i was doing well by reading other newspapers out of state, for crying out loud!
    See, most of them are owned by the same corporations, so it's the same news everywhere!

    Don't feel bad. It's not easy to swim against societal tides. Most people don't even realize they are in the river, let alone that the current is carrying them along. To realize it, and then swim upstream, takes unusual powers of observation. However, leaving the WTS is a fast way to gains those powers! Apply the same scrutiny to corporations and the media as we applied to the GB. You will see why I keep repeating the phrase, "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely."

  • patio34
    patio34

    LOL Seeker,

    thanks for those kind and reasonable words. I guess my statement does reveal a myopic view of the world and may be typical of this nation. I'll have to think outside the box in more ways than one. I LOVE being away from the JWs as there is so much to learn. "The world, take it easy, but take it."

    Pat

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    I love this talk of the US 'withdrawing'... like, where to?

    This is the twenty-first century; isolationalism does not work, proven fact.

    People living in glass paradigms shouldn't throw stones...

  • patio34
    patio34

    Hi Norm,

    I couldn't locate information on Nizar al-Khazraji, other than he defected to Jordan in 1996. Can you please provide a link or the article that US is apparently working with him?

    Thanks,
    Pat

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