Criminal , new US ally

by Norm 23 years ago 125 Replies latest 23 years ago jw friends

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  Focus 23 years ago

  When dealing with the American ethos, it is most efficient for all concerned to assume one is dealing with a silly and unruly young child... and provoke responses (precisely as predicted) that may be utilized as an example. And so:

  freeman wrote:

  the famous and much feared Focus

  Just as the US is, eh?

  you here to do battle

  Just like the US does, eh? (Except my battle is for hearts and minds, a battle the US has singularly lost)

  you have necessarily demonized me in your mind already?

  Just like the US does to every group who opposes its policies, eh?

  why is it that some here on this DB are afraid of you, and is that a good thing?

  Just as the US should be asking itself, with "DB" replaced by "world", eh?

  you’re also a bit of a pompous ass

  Just like the US is, eh?

  more precisely a bully

  Just like the US is, eh? (Except I don't maim and kill people)

  since you are rattling your saber

  Just like the US does again and again and again, eh?

  bullies

  Just as the US is seen, eh? (Except that I am not a big country or group but alone: I comprise no wolf pack of professors. OTOH, I have academically slaughtered and scattered many a wolf pack of professors)

  they needed a little humbling

  Just as the US needs, eh?

  I am not equal to the task of humbling you. No person on this DB is.

  Just as so many in the world feels about that silly and unruly child, the immature US, which as a country possesses great power and little wisdom, eh?

  would you gain if you kicked my ass? Reinforcement of your delusion that you are somehow superior.

  Just as has happened with the US after the (sadly, in part necessary: it was too late for the intelligent cure to be applied) slaughter in Afghanistan, eh?

  Repeat these words over and over; “Everyone is superior to me in that I may learn from them” “I can learn from everyone” “ I am better then nobody”.

  Just exactly such excellent advice that is needed for the US, eh?

  SOMETHING MANY SEE MISSING IN YOU, humility and expressions of human compassion.

  Just as the majority of the people in the world rightly view the US, eh?

  I’m sure it’s down inside of you somewhere Focus, just please let it out more often.

  Just as most of the rest of the world prays that the silly and unruly child that is the US develops maturity, foresight and begins to represent the best of its many fine people, instead of representing the Coca Cola Class, the Hollywood Class, the Jerry Springer Class, the My Lai Class, the Superiority Class and the Hollywood Class, eh?

  --
  Focus
  (Your Very Humble Friend Uriah Class)

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  Focus 23 years ago

  gambler wrote:

  magicly pass on bashing russia and china.Russia and china have murdured more of their people than any other contries in all of history.Russia has stoped its genocide but china continues to add to its total.Mabey china isint bashed because its no fun to bash them.They dont care what some stupid little contry in euorpe thinks of them.

  What a dumb thing to say! Well, Europeans can answer this for themselves, so I'll be brief:

  Stalinist Russia itself was shameful almost beyond belief, and little better than Nazi Germany. And at various times in China's often illustrious history there have been shameful periods of mass slaughters - one time, every person with a certain most common family name was killed!

  In China, the present murderous regime is shameful too - as you admitted.

  I would point out that the world power that has consistently SUPPORTED the Chinese regime over the past decades has been - the UNITED STATES!

  Check to see which country has the official "MOST-FAVORED TRADING PARTNER" status with the US. You thought it was the Brits? What a joke. It has been China, for ages...

  While European and other nations had threatened China with, and sometimes taken, diplomatic sanctions and embargoes after the shameful Tiananmen Square massacre (Beijing, 1989) and subsequent purges of their own students, the US rattled its saber, maintained the status quo AND ENGAGED IN BEHIND-THE-SCENES TALKS SUPPORTING THE MURDEROUS DICTATORS WHO HAD PERPETRATED THE ATROCITY.

  http://www.gwu.edu for some declassified documents. Sickening reading for those able to read.

  gambler, you are so fearfully ignorant of history and current world affairs (and many other less relevant matters) that your opinions are without any merit at all. Please learn first and ejaculate later. You may well have a brain in there somewhere, but at present it is ill-equipped to contribute anything of value.

  The US has "made" more communists, more terrorists and more extremists than any other nation. Food for thought for thinking christians - daily heavenly Manna from the Heavenly Gate, even.

  --
  Focus
  (Helpful Foot Class)

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  Focus 23 years ago

  The short sharp shock seldom makes one loved. But it often has effect.

  patio34 wrote:

  because of a lack of research on the issue

  Thank you for acknowledging that your earlier expressed positions and opinions were based on ignorance. That takes honesty and courage. Well done.

  Focus, your excessive insulting style is too much for me and i'm ending any discussion with you.

  That is your privilege. "Thank you for educating me." would have been more appropriate. But I do not seek, crave or particularly want thanks.

  Don't shoot the messenger, whatever his or her delivery style, because the content and TRUTH of the message makes one very uncomfortable indeed. A human tendency to focus on form over substance is an action relied on by controlling cults who are trying to ensnare new converts...

  you're loaded for bear no matter what comes along.

  No, that was the warmongering Teddy Roosevelt. He was a US President, by the way. Not to be confused with FDR.

  And better to be loaded for bear than to be shown to be full of bull: what do you say?

  Freeman makes the sensible observation that you lack humility, but it seems it is a lack of respect for others.

  IF I DID NOT RESPECT OTHERS WHY WOULD I TRY TO INFLUENCE THEIR VIEWS?

  You confuse respecting the person and respecting idiotic and ignorant beliefs held by the person.

  Your argumentation seems good however.

  No. I am right. All else follows.

  Maybe I'll be reading foreign news instead of just the US news and gain a better perspective.

  A wise decision - I'll consider that to be your "thanks".

  Propaganda was not invented by Joe Goebbels or Joe Stalin. It is older than the Pyramids. And it is alive and well in Washington and among the Stooge Class of the US media.

  If I was capable of hot anger, it would be at the opportunities to do massive good so childishly squandered by the US, which should be acting as an example to nations who, usually through no fault whatsoever of their own other than geographical, geopolitical or geo-something-else chance, are far less economically fortunate...

  --
  Focus
  (

  FORGOT WHICH COUNTRY SPAWNED THE WATCHTOWER MOVEMENT?

  Class)

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  Satanus 23 years ago

  Focus

  I mostly agree.

  SS

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  Focus 23 years ago

  TR wrote:

  Freeman,
  You're the man.

  Freeman is "the man" for being so SHOCKINGLY IGNORANT and unable to interpret the CLEAREST MESSAGES or learn THE CLEAREST LESSONS FROM HISTORY??

  I trust you were being sarcastic, TR.

  Here, Freeman demonstrates the analytic skills of the average Paramecium (while intoxicated).

  He tries to claim the moral high ground for the US for what it did prior to Pearl Harbor to prevent the spread of the Axis powers...

  He calls the war against Hitler and the other Axis powers "YOUR WAR"!!!

  This is IGNORANCE AND STUPIDITY ON A TRULY MONUMENTAL LEVEL

  Hitler and the Axis had a long history of picking fights with their innocent, pacifist neighbors, attacking them, invading them and enslaving them.

  EVENTUALLY, HAD HE NOT BEEN STOPPED, THE UNITED STATES and the Americas WOULD HAVE BECOME HITLER'S NEIGHBOR (he having conquered most of the rest of the world). AND THEN HITLER WOULD HAVE INVADED THE U.S., AND HAVE ULTIMATELY WON, FOR ALL THE RESOURCES OF THE WORLD WOULD HAVE BEEN AT HIS DISPOSAL.

  Nuclear power would not have stopped this happening. Germany was far ahead of the US in terms of DELIVERY via MISSILES - von Braun - V2/V3 - one would have thought even a JANITOR at NASA would have known, Freeman, how the US space effort got started.

  SO, IF NOT FOR THE EUROPEAN AND RUSSIAN OPPOSITION TO HITLER, YOU IDIOTIC IGNORAMUS FREEMAN, IT WOULD BE YOU WHO WOULD BE SPEAKING GERMAN - IF YOUR PARENTS HAD BEEN PERMITTED TO SPAWN YOU AT ALL!! I only speak in such a jingoistic way, for that is the "argumentation" employed by Freeman in his original spewing into this thread!

  Conclusion:
  IT IS THE COWARDLY, FOOLISH AND IMMATURE "UNITED STATES" THAT INSTEAD OWES FRANCE AND BRITAIN A DEBT OF GRATITUDE FOR BEING THE ONES WHO FIRST STOOD UP TO HITLER AND OPPOSED HIM AND FOR HAVING THE FORESIGHT TO SEE WHAT WAS ABSOLUTELY NEEDED.. (if only they had acted a year earlier!).

  It was purely selfish self-interest that made the US do what it did. And it did it grudgingly. And it gave next to nothing - IT LENT, and at USURIOUS RATES OF INTEREST, secured on the british Gold held in Canada for safekeeping.

  The lack of opposition to Nazism and the Axis dictato-imperialistic regimes was not rooted in U.S. Wickedness. Instead, it was rooted in U.S. naivete, immaturity, STUPIDITY and feelings of invulnerability. The U.S. had members of the Freeman Class dotted all over its Government!

  The period from the early 1930s to the end of 1941 is a period of which the EDUCATED American should largely be ashamed of his country's skulking isolationism, cowardice and unbelievable stupidity... that it was just "THEIR WAR"... "YOUR WAR".

  Freeman, do you have WW1 and WW2 confused? Where were you educated? Just curious.

  "YOUR WAR" indeed... Where Hitler and the Axis was concerned, EVERY PERSON WHO VALUED LIBERTY, FREEDOM AND, YES, LIFE ITSELF, HAD A DUTY TO MAKE IT "THEIR WAR".

  To congratulate the US for exactly that for which it should be condemned requires a specific mix of stupidity, crassness and ignorance:

  "YOUR WAR"... Freeman's Intellectual Epitaph.

  Here, therefore, is today's reading for Freeman:
  "Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.. This is the condition of children and barbarians, in whom instinct has learned nothing from experience."
  - George Santayana (1863-1952), A GREAT AMERICAN THINKER, from his "Life of Reason", Volume 1, Chapter 12, page 284 of the 1905 edition.

  Not, of course, that I am angry, though U.S.-inspired millions of dead kids and innocents, massive world pollution and irreversible global destruction are things which should make me "hot". That others have been worse in the past is wholly irrelevant, and an idiotic consideration. The worst traits of immature, unthinking human nature are often observed in US policy.

  But, the giving of knowledge (leading as it might to the inculcation of maturity, even wisdom) to the unfortunate comprises a blessing for the giver as much as the ungrateful recipient!

  --
  Focus[/b]
  (No Heep Of Iniquity Me! Class)

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  IslandWoman 23 years ago

  Seeker, I was not just referring to nations who ask America for help. There are also those nations who, knowing that in the event of some major conflict America will step in to help them, enjoy the benefits of maintaining a scaled down military. In effect, "Our military, makes their low military budget possible!"

  There has been much said here concerning countries who want America to leave them alone, but no names. If you can I would like to know which countries of the world feel this way, other than the obvious ones. I'll write to my congressman and ask what national interest is so important that we risk losing friends by imposing ourselves on them when we are not wanted! Not much I know but it's all I CAN do, since at the present time we are all held captive by the political machines in our respective countries.

  The U.S. Constitution has taken second place to political machinations on the Federal and State levels. Changes need to be made. Loyalty and love for our country, our land and our people must come before Political Party loyalties and commercial ties to big business. Maybe the Enron problem and this seemingly mad and impossible business of searching out all the terrorists in the world will, along with some loud voices here in America, help the American people to see they need to be much better informed about our national and foreign policy issues both present and past. Americans need to elect quality people with proven track records and not rely on campaign rhetoric to help them pick national and state leaders.

  There are many things that could be implemented here in America that would, I believe, greatly improve our political climate and in turn the Nation. It's easy for many to throw stones at America, and certainly many of their arguments have merit.

  Someone on this thread brought up the mistreatment of the American Indians. The "Americans" who mistreated the Indians and enslaved the Blacks were Europeans and the descendants of Europeans. Africa, India, China and the Middle East all bear the scars of European domination and intervention in their affairs. Should we now start enumerating the "wrongs" committed by Europe and how those wrongs led to the murder, abuse and suppression of many peoples outside of Europe for centuries, in addition to World War?

  Hardly! What Europe did was not because it was "Europe", it did what any peoples on earth would have done given the same circumstances. The same goes for the U.S., what country can say that given the same circumstances their own politicians would not have taken them down the same path that America has taken?

  Human nature is the real enemy and how to get it under control is the real problem and challenge.

  My comments are not directed at you personally, just putting in my 2 cents on the whole issue.

  IW

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  Englishman 23 years ago

  Just a thought. The English speaking nations such as the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and South Africa all have a fairly similar culture. Their overall process of reasoning is fairly alike too.

  Americans are different, their culture, their values, their flag-waving, is nothing like that of the other English speakers. They are more prone to isolating themselves because their ‘sphere of reference’ is so massive, means that, once they have come to understand the divergences of their own huge, well-populated country, there is little room for much knowledge of anyone else. If I drive more than 5 hours in ANY direction, I am in another country. Most Americans are still in the same state. So for us to expect Americans to know all about US is a little optimistic IMO.

  The ‘English speaking’ is the trap here. America is actually more ‘foreign’ to Brits than say, France or Germany. We make the mistake of expecting America to reflect our own values purely because we speak a similar language. The reality is that most Americans don’t have that much to thank Europeans for if you consider the reasons why their ancestors left in the first place.

  Englishman.

  Truth exists;only falsehood has to be invented. -Georges Braque

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  Focus 23 years ago

  Englishman wrote:

  The reality is that most Americans don’t have that much to thank Europeans for if you consider the reasons why their ancestors left in the first place.

  Come on, admit it. You haven't been reading your Winnie's History of the English Speaking Peoples, now have you?

  Wasn't it largely the intellectual and moral DREGS of society who quit Europe for the New World?

  How can we expect more after so few genea have elapsed?

  Ask the few surviving North American Native Americans - they have retained records of their history - who were the by far the most cruel, barbarous and murderous:
  (a) the settlers and their Government
  (b) the British troops
  (c) the French troops.

  It is no contest.

  And as for slavery... the French and British outlawed it and fought against it actively. If one has to learn history from Hollywood, try Amistad rather than The Patriot. At least Spielberg knew who the villains were.

  The US sure has a lot to be proud of.

  --
  Focus
  (Note that the "?" signifies that the above comprise questions Class)

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  Seeker 23 years ago

  IW,

  There has been much said here concerning countries who want America to leave them alone, but no names.

  On the contrary, I have several times mentioned Latin America. Ask El Salvador or Nicaragua if they would have preferred to be left alone by the U.S. in the 1980s rather than have the U.S. prevent democratic movements in those countries from flourishing because the U.S. would rather have had a despot in place that would be friendly to U.S. political interests even while they were using terrorism on their own people.

  And when Nicaragua did get a democratically-elected government, the U.S. lied about them and made it sound as if they forced their way into power over the will of the Nicaraguan people, despite their overwhelming support locally. Why did the U.S. do that? Because the previous regime, though brutal to the Nicaraguans, said all the right things to America. The new regime, elected popularly, was willing to make economic deals with the Russians. To Ronald "Evil Empire" Reagan, this was anathema, and thus the steady stream of lies designed to undermine democracy in that country.

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  patio34 23 years ago

  Hi Eman,

  You said

  Americans are different, their culture, their values, their flag-waving, is nothing like that of the other English speakers. They are more prone to isolating themselves because their ‘sphere of reference’ is so massive, means that, once they have come to understand the divergences of their own huge, well-populated country, there is little room for much knowledge of anyone else. If I drive more than 5 hours in ANY direction, I am in another country. Most Americans are still in the same state. So for us to expect Americans to know all about US is a little optimistic IMO.

  That's an interesting observation. Thanks.

  Focus, I read your sarcastic reply. You DO have a bent for it. While it seems you are correct mostly, i still think you're a smart ass.

  Pat

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