by DT 35 Replies latest jw friends
"Please don't think I did not read the book and why would you think I'd destroy it? I would not do that. ..."
Phew! O-k, then...
One never knows, when dealing with people on-line, just exactly WHO is hitting the keys at the other end...
I wish you well in reading the rest of the book - sorry to hear about your eyesight, and I think you've mentioned that to me, before...
Zid
factfinder,
Thank you for your comments. About the magazines, it's not really stealing of they give them away. It may not be wise to take a lot, but it's not hard to take a few and dispose of them in a more responsible manner. The fact that they are giving them away is a kind of fraud. They are doing this to avoid sales taxes. They would rather give them away and collect donations tax free. That's their decision, but they should calculate the extra cost of people who will take them for free and recycle them rather than distribute them to the public. I think it's also fair that intimidating people to stay in the organisation should have some sort of cost. Wasted literature is an example.
About the time slips, I view it kind of like if you knew your phones were tapped by a government or organisation that was trying to collect information against you. I would avoid saying anything that can incriminate me and might even plant some misleading information in my conversations. The Watchtower Society has no right to collect written reports about the amount of time their members spend in "sacred service". Yet they do, and are happy to use this information against it's members. Not turning in a time slip can result in harassment and be a signal that the person should be observed for other possible offenses. I don't have a problem with planting misleading information when I am being spied upon. I realise that some people might view it differently.
I should clarify that I'm out of the organisation and have never falsified my time or taken literature to throw away. I personally valued my freedom more than my relationships with my friends and family. If I had closer family in the organization, I might have made a different decision, so I sympathise with all those who are in but would prefer to leave.
I thought I should clarify my moral position. I'm not advocating lying about Jehovah's Witnesses. People deserve to know the truth and lying or exaggerating about Jehovah's Witnesses is wrong. It is also usually counter productive. But even when it isn't, I wouldn't argue that the end justifies the means.
What I am saying is that I'm attacked (or my family is attacked) with a weapon or other device, then it is morally acceptable to use that weapon against the attacker. If someone attacks me with a bat, I will try to steal that bat from him and use it to defend myself, if necessary. The Watchtower Society uses a number of tools to control and intimidate its members. I do think it's justified to use these tools against them, if possible.
@DT- thank you for explaining your views. I also feel sorry for those in the cong who want to leave but feel they can't because relatives or friends will shun them. I do not condone the society's actions against those who leave- I get shunned too and I am not even disfellowshipped! I just stopped going to meetings and out in service. I never spoke against the society to any of them nor do I try to get witnesses to leave. Everyone must make their own descision about staying or leaving.
It is true they do not charge for the literature to avoid taxation. They may be taking into account the fact that not all copies of the magazines get placed and some get thrown out.
And you are right- no one should feel coerced to remain in the cong if they want to leave. And we should not be shunned just because we leave. I never viewed handing in my time slips as the wts spying on me. I know that the organization does need to have a good idea of how much literature to print, how many will likely attend a DC in a certain area, etc. But any judging the elders do against someone based on their fs report is wrong. Of course, any judging the elders do against anyone at all is wrong!
I agree with you that if you are being attacked you have the right to defend yourself, by "taking the bat away from the attacker to use it to protect yourself.'
I do not condone the wrong policies of the wts. The intimidation and shunning are wrong.
I still feel taking the literature to throw it out and making up fake time slips is wrong. But like I said- I am trying to be objective. If my situation was different I may feel like other posters do.
I want to become balenced. Its not easy. I'm glad you do not advocate lying. There are always two sides and I guess its best to try to see both before making a decision. I do not think EVERYTHING about the witnesses is wrong.
Anyway, thank you for explaining your viewpoint!
factfinder,
Your comments have helped me to look at this issue from some different perpectives.
One of the things that helped me to leave is that I realised that the JW lifestyle involves a lot of dishonesty. I had to make some changes to my work schedule once to attend an assembly. My boss went out her way to help me. I thanked her again afterwards and she asked me if a had a good time. I said yes with a forced smile on my face. The truth was that I had a miserable time. I had grown to despise the assemblies. I felt guilty for lying but felt that I couldn't put the organization in a negative light. I realised that I had been less than honest at other times and began to question my assumptions and resolved to be more honest with myself and others.
When I became convinced that the "truth" was a bunch of lies, I left almost immediately, with little regard for the consequences. I couldn't imagine living a lie and pretending that I was a believer. If they had enough influence over me to make me feel that I had to live that lie (to preserve family relationships or to help get others out) I think I would have viewed it as a crisis situation. I think I would have been willing to take unusual measures to end my captivity or at least make it difficult for my captors. It's hard for me to imagine being too concerned with small deceptions if my whole life is a lie. To me, it's kind of like a spy who pretends to be a citizen of another country, but insists on being honest about his tastes on music, food and other little things that could compromise his cover.
I also realise that many people have to hold on to certain standards, even in extreme circumstances, so I can sympathise with the idea of being reluctant to being less than completely honest with things like timeslips. The negative feelings that result could negate any possible benefits.
DT-
Its interesting that you felt bothered having to tell your supervisor that you had a good time at the DC when really you hated it.
I too, always felt I had to present anything regarding the witnesses in a "positive light". I guess I was just going along with what we were taught to do and say.
I have not had much peace since leaving the witnesses. I can't say my life has improved. I do not miss fs at all and did not like having to get dressed up and go to meetings. But I have so many conflicts. It is like a part of me WANTS to go back to believing what I once did, even though I now realize the truth about the truth. I have so many negative feelings about certain ones in the cong and the new gb.
But I still have fond memories of my visits to Bethel-and some of those buildings hold a special place to me and I feel bad the society will be selling them all.
When I used to fill out my timeslips I tried to be as accurate as possible. I believed at the time that I was serving Jehovah and that he KNEW what I was reporting. I cannot imagine being in the cong and feeling trapped and that you cannot leave. I guess its just a matter of time before the unhappiness one feels going to meetings is stronger than the fear of possible consequences of leaving.
But I had no close friends or relatives in the cong. either- so I don't know what that is like.
Correction: I did not have any close friends or relatives in the cong . I left.
Years ago- I did have close friends in the cong I was in- but I was happier being a witness back then.
