by jehu or jehonadab 111 Replies latest watchtower scandals
Oh well,
Athiests are allowed to take a 15 minute paid break.
Christians are allowed to take a 15 minute break and claim it if they want, in sacred service, even it this ticks off the Athiests.
Jewish people that take 15 minutes off, and enjoy a cup of coffee with either a Christian or an Athiest.
Children of parents whether Christians, or Atheists can learn from their parents on how they spend their breaks.
From the Brief Amicus Curiae of the American Psychological Association, in The Supreme Court of the State of California, February 10, 1987:
87
“Amici will demonstrate that a strong consensus of relevant professional opinion supports the trial court's decision to exclude the proffered testimony of Drs. Singer and Benson because that testimony did not meet these standards of general acceptance in the scientific community. The theories of Drs. Singer and Benson are not new to the scientific community. After searching scrutiny, the scientific community has repudiated the assumptions, methodologies, and conclusions of Drs. Singer and Benson. The validity of the claim that, absent physical force or threats, "systematic manipulation of the social influences" can coercively deprive individuals of free will lacks any empirical foundation and has never been confirmed by other research. (Point I.B.) The specific methods by which Drs. Singer and Benson have arrived at their conclusions have also been rejected by all serious scholars in the field. (Point I.C.)” (15)
That nice Teary....so would you prefer to call it behaviour control?
Even that is not a very clear term.
"Thus, the milieu of control identified...consisting of behavioral control, mental control, emotional control, and information control cannot, in every case and as a matter of principle, be characterized as “manipulative.” Control of these areas of action is an inevitable component of social interactions in a group or community. The social control that is always associated with intense commitment to a group must therefore be clearly distinguished from exertion of intentional, methodical influence for the express purpose of manipulation." -- Final Report of the Enquete Commission on "So-called Sects and Psychogroups" New Religious and Ideological Communities and Psychogroups in the Federal Republic of Germany
"Malony argues, with the mass of social and psychological literature to back him up, that "social influence" occurs. That while he personally (along with the entire field of clinical psychology) aims at producing individuals with strong egos, capable of individual self-determination, he cannot escape the fact that none of us can escape from the effects of personal interactions with others and social organizations (from nations to families) to which we belong. There is no act that is totally autonomous. That people have the privilege and responsibility to determine their life for themselves, complete self-determination is at best a heuristic goal. At times, individuals make decisions which most (family members, neighbors, friends, fellow employees) consider unwise, including the choice to join an unpopular religious organization.” -- Brainwashing and the Cults, Rise and Fall of a Theory
I was a 'fake' pioneer and no one suspected it. It started out as me thinking if I became a pioneer then I would stay spiritually focused as I already was sinking and getting bored with it. I was not raised a witness and only one for 4 yrs before I pioneering. The first month I could not make the hours, I just had no more 'zeal' for the preaching anymore. So, I was feeling guilty and just made up the hours telling myself I would make them up the next month. Following month came, nope; hours got worse. By the time it was january/february I was doing 2 hrs a month then 0 hrs. NO ONEnoticed!!! I made all the meetings though so they wouldn't suspect anything. There were 16 pioneers in the congregation too, all very groupy to one another. Spring came and my husband made more hours than me and he only got out 1 or 2 times per month. I didn't tell him though, fear he would be upset. So, I promised myself I would not be a 'pioneer' the following service year and then I would give free time in the months and not record it. Yeah right. So, I went to pioneer school then that summer for the first time with all the other 'real' pioneers. Why do they hold that meeting from non pioneers? It's nothing different then what you already know. So ridiculous. Didn't feel very special from anyone, I know they want you to feel elevated.
So, after that service year (where I put probably 30ish hours in the whole year) I told elders I do not want to pioneer the new year. At 4 months later they give me the 'encouraging' speech to make sure I keep up 'high' hours that I supposedly did before. They were upset I was putting 2 hrs on my slip and I should encourage others to be a pioneer. Hey, at least I was then being honest about my time!!!! Well, during that little 'uplifting meeting' from these elders, they also informed my husband he was not holding the microphone (for several months now) due to the fact he doesn't have the national average for service time. Um, how do they get that average but to add various numbers from publishers averaging from 1 hour to 30 or more hours per month? The national average really isn't true.
Long story short, that elder meeting was the last time we were in a witness building for 3 yrs now!! Cult!! Hooray!!!
Cool story, keeshondgirl!
Congrats on being cult-free for 3 years!!
how about mind and behaviour manipulators?
whatever you call the group they are a high control group. People feel obligated to put in time for field service and feel guilty if they are unable to do so. Those who have taken on the added burden of pioneering spend the whole month focusing on time. When I auxillary pioneered I devided the weeks into 15 hour chunks and worked each week. I counted my time honestly and stressed about it the whole time. The problem with such a focus is that you stop looking at the quality of the ministry and look only at the amount of time you spent. This means that a call that rambles on endlessly about their issues counts the same as someone who asks pertinent questions.
It is no wonder that the ministry becomes irrelevent and that loopholes in how you count time become important. I pity the waitresses who have tracts thrust upon them, not because they are perceived to be in spiritual need but because they are a body that allows someone to count time.
The purpose of the time count has nothing to do with god but serves a group purpose to identify those who are most committed to the faith and a legal purpose to show charities that their members have clocked up so many hours in voluntary work.
Field service is often done badly with no real focus or enthusiasm. There are some who make an effort but I have worked with many in the field service and the majority have no passion for it and it shows.
Teary you say you are not a witness and yet are happy to judge the morality and credibility of those who were. If you were never in it you don't get it nor do you understand it so what you say lacks any foundation in this discussion. If you are then why are you here at all?
Yes, Teary has known quite a few Witness elders over the years; but just discussing Teary's writing work and the origins of his name with JW elders doesn't mean that Teary is currently a Witness himself. Again, use those critical thinking skills.
Speaking of critical thinking skills and complete bullshit - no witness elder discusses (several times!!!) what a person's avatar name is and whether or not it is religiously suitable to the witnesses with anybody except a witness. In fact, I doubt that any but a tiny minority of witness elders would discuss such a thing at all without calling you in for a judicial hearing.
Nobody comes onto an ex-JW website and trolls for the witnesses unless he is still a witness in his own mind. Even if a person is a disfellowshipped witness, or an ex-witness by disassociation, they are still mentally a witness if they think and post like Teary.
Teary is also cross-threaded on the points made in this thread: The thread is an expose of active pioneer witnesses who fake up time to make the hourly requirement. This is dishonesty on the part of ACTIVE WITNESS PIONEERS, not ex-witnesses (as Teary seems to want to imply).
Ex-witnesses on this board do not worry about "faking time" any more than the twelve apostles did, because we don't count "time" - no more than the early christians did.
"Speaking of critical thinking skills and complete bullshit - no witness elder discusses (several times!!!) what a person's avatar name is and whether or not it is religiously suitable to the witnesses with anybody except a witness. In fact, I doubt that any but a tiny minority of witness elders would discuss such a thing at all without calling you in for a judicial hearing."
When Teary writes things for them, and signs his pen name at the bottom, and they discuss it together on their visits, then it does indeed come up (who wouldn't ask questions about such an interesting pen name?). Again, make use of those critical thinking skills.
"Nobody comes onto an ex-JW website and trolls for the witnesses unless he is still a witness in his own mind. Even if a person is a disfellowshipped witness, or an ex-witness by disassociation, they are still mentally a witness if they think and post like Teary."
Ex-Jws.net is a totally different site. But this site says "Jehovah's-Witness.net," so Teary assumes that is primarily intended for, as the name says, JWs. If anything, YOU would be the one that shouldn't be here on a Witness site.
p.s. There is no such thing as "mentally a Witness." You are either baptized and active in the ministry or you aren't. A DF'd person is not a Witness, no matter how much they imagine themselves to be one (nor is a dissassociated person).
"The thread is an expose of active pioneer witnesses who fake up time to make the hourly requirement. This is dishonesty on the part of ACTIVE WITNESS PIONEERS, not ex-witnesses (as Teary seems to want to imply)."
And yet you just said that true JWs do not come on this thread. This thread has been a showcase of the experiences of THIS SITE'S MEMBERS, which as a group represent primarily the "failed pioneers" and "failed Witnesses." If they had done good in the ministry, been honest and enjoyed it greatly then they wouldn't have ended up here on what you said is an Ex-Witness site bashing the Witnesses now would they? That is like going to a leper colony, and then making the assumption based solely off of what you see there that all of humanity must be sickly and miserable.
