Who arrested Jesus and why was Peter not arrested for slicing someone ear.off?

by jam 40 Replies latest watchtower bible

AGuest

A Guest, I could not care less about your approval in reading books.
Of course, dear BOTR (again, peace to you!)...
It seems to me that others are not interested in whether I have your approval or not.
To you, yes...
This was a fun, light hearted thread.
"Fun"? "Light hearted"? Well, I mean, I didn't think it was TOO serious, no, but I certainly did consider it a sober topic. Even so, apparently you took some issue with my response... an so eluded to it in your... well, let's just call it your usual "fun and light hearted" manner.
Drama.
You know? I'm saying. For the LIFE of me I couldn't figure out why you even needed to go where you did. Nothing in my [initial] response was directed to YOU. I simply responded to the OP which, apparently, got under your skin (though I have absolutely NO clue why, but... well... so much for "fun and light hearted" from YOUR direction...).
Thought: If the NT incident is reported accurately, why did not the soldiers bow down and worship Jesus, singing alleulias.
Why would they have done that? Oh, because they saw him repair the servant's ear? Who said they saw it? Even if they did, surely you recall who they worked for... and what these TOLD those who worked for them TO say... about ALL of this. Yes? I mean, SURELY, in all of your vast reading career (which certainly must include the accounts themselves) you read where people were TOLD what to say about my Lord and what he did, yes? Oh, wait... no... perhaps those are the lone accounts you managed to miss...
This would prevent the resurrection.
Ummmm... what? Oh, you mean if they HAD bowed down and worshipped him? Why? Many of the Jews initially DID so bow down - heck, they lauded him and received him into the city while waving olive branches and lauding him! Yet, ummmmm... where were they after he was arrested... "tried" (before TWO courts, with 3 trips between them)... condemned... and impaled? Where were they when Pilate asked WHO should be impaled, my Lord... or [Jesus] Barabbas? Surely, the answer is there... somewhere in all of your vast reading... so I have NO doubt you know...
What if they were so moved that they threw their old lifes away and decided to become disciples.
What IF? What does what IF have to do with what DID occur... what WAS?
They could have spirited Jesus safely to another land. No Passion. No Resurrection. It is funny, too, that Paul is always cerebral and Peter always hot headed and passionate in film and TV.
What... in the WORLD... does this have to do with this discussion, dear BOTR?
I can't picture Paul telling a joke but he must have.
Or this?
It would be amazing for a time warp to develop as in Star Trek and I could meet the real people.
It would. But if you're trying to be snide as regards THIS matter, I would only say that, since you (and I) CAN'T... why not do the next best thing: ask someone who DID meet the real people... because he was the one they CAME for?
I had many opportunities to meet John Lennon individually and never pressed it.
Okaaayyyy... but forgive if I don't quite give Mr. Lennon the same reverence that I give my Lord. I mean, while I know he was/is a "god" to some people (and, personally, I believe him to have been the greatest songwriter who ever lived... excluding, perhaps, King David, but he had help (holy spirit)... I don't think he would be the person I would look up had I access to time travel. Well, not the first person. Maybe the third (after my Lord as he was at the time... and Mary, his fleshly mother - I would love to meet the woman that the Most Holy One of Israel felt worthy to bear His Son - she must have been a bit extraordinary...). Okay, and after Abraham, Moses, and Adham... in the order. THEN, Mr. Lennon... certainly.
I would rather be a distant fan than a fan who was cursed at.
Not sure what you mean by that... and not really sure I want to, sorry, given this interchange. Just not that curious about it, right now, sorry...
Imagine Jesus or Paul not measuring up to my expectations.
As to Paul, I can imagine that, yes, because you are a woman (he doesn't measure to the expectations of MANY women)... and he was merely a man. No different than you and I; even worse, in some ways, is my understanding. Hence, the purpose of his ministry: to compensate for his bloodguilt.
As to Christ... I don't even get why you included the statement. As to my Lord OR Paul, actually...
Peace to you, BOTR, truly. You took a shot... and I simply tossed it back. Perhaps with a little more "umph" behind it, yes. Happens, sometimes.
A slave of Christ,
SA
AGuest

Arresting Jesus on the night of Passover and then taking him to the Sanhedrin for a trial is, well, ridiculous
.
No, it actually took place during Passover, dear Moshe (peace to you!)... AND a great Sabbath.
All Jews would be celebrating Passover that night
All Jews... except the high priest, chief priests, scribes, and older men... i.e., the Sanhedrin. They had more "important" things to do than observe the Passover. Like looking for false witnesses willing to testify against an innocent man, running that man back and forth between their "chiefs", holding a [mock] trial, charging that man with "blasphemy" aga(for calling himself God's Son), delivering him over to the Roman governor to be tried for "sedition" and "treason", convincing that governor of that man's "guilt" (after the governor found NO guilt and sent him back to THEIR ruler, who ALSO found no guilt)... then convincing the crowds to call for that man's death. LOTS to do that night, dear one.
and having a trial that night just wouldn't be-uh, kosher, when it could be done on another day.
No, couldn't be done another day: Passover was the IDEAL day/night. First, it was prophesied to occur on Passover... and second, there was the custom of releasing a prisoner during a festival... and it was so that the prophesy could be fulfilled that they called for the real of an ACTUAL criminal... rather than the release of their own God-appointed king. Why is this significant? Because it showed... their hearts, what was IN them. And... it took the priests, etc., off the hook... because they now had the excuse that the PEOPLE called for his death, not them, the PEOPLE... COULD have called for his release, but didn't - they chose Barabbas, instead, and so what were they to DO? Ignore the PEOPLE?
It wasn't an emergency.
Oh, contrare, dear one... it was absolutely an emergency... for Caiaphas and his lot. One more miracle and the people would turn on THEM. Couldn't have THAT happen, could they? So, no, there was no more time for this upstart. Unfortunately, they underestimated him: he actually performed on more miracle - his own resurrection. Which is what began the turn of people away from the priests and that form of religion... to the form of FAITH Christ taught about before he was killed.
Just imagine the Pope holding a business meeting with the Cardinals right after Xmas eve Mass- get my point?
And so what? You really think the laity would have a problem? You think they would take issue with whatever their "Papa" did and for whatever reason? Popes have committed HEINOUS acts and crimes over the millenia. The current Pope condoned/hid known pedophiles. Some don't LIKE it, no... but doesn't affect his position on wit. The "Pope" would simply publish that there was something requiring urgent attention (even make something up)... and hold his meeting.
And nothing more would happen than a throng of people gathering outside the conclave to find out what it is. Wanna stir up a crowd? Gotta draw one, first. Having some kind of "secret" meeting involving, say, someone who spoke out against the "Church" in some way that has been related to the PEOPLE as being blaspemous... would do that. Every one in that square would call for the so-called blasphemer's head. On a platter...
This story is Christian folklore for the uneducated crowd.
I disagree, but you are absolutely entitled... and more than welcome... to believe whatever it is YOU believe, absolutely!
Jesus should have performed a miracle like that in daylight - if he could heal an ear that was chopped off, why not a missing arm, leg, eye, and regrow hair on a bald head?
Why do you assume he didn't? Because it isn't written in the Bible? Everything he did wasn't written down; even one writer states that. Ever so, why do you assume that it wasn't written down... somewhere... even in the Bible? Since that compilation has been tampered with... how CAN you know? Only one way I know of: ask.
Now, Jesus' miracle hair restoration would have ensured he would have been a popular prophet indeed.
LOLOLOL! I don't think hair loss was a problem for the Jews (for those for whom it is now, that is due to the blood of non-Jews in their ancestry)... except perhaps those with some kind of disease that included hair loss. Heal the disease, though... and heal the hair loss...
I hope this helps... and totally understand if it doesn't [help you]. No worries, though, if that's the case; just sharing the truth, is all... and, again, peace to you!
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
moshe

One more miracle and the people would turn on THEM.
Get real- this man had no friends in the Jewish public at large- nobody was hanging on his miracles ( bread and fishes hidden in the tall grass ahead of time)- why, Jesus, if he was that popular wouldn't have spent Passover alone (well he had hooligans w/swords for company- couldn't Jesus protect them?) on the side of a mountain- he would have been in a Seder- teaching. Oh, I know- he didn't, because it was prophecied to happen that way- convenient.
I don't blame you SA, I never picked up on the contextual problems, either until I became a member of the tribe. Only a Jew would see these kind of problems with the Gospel accounts. (not that they care) I am glad I didn't marry into an Orthodox family- their Seder's do last past midnight-
It is telling to me that Jesus really had no place/family to celebrate the Passover with- which is just not the way of the Jews ON Passover. Jesus' mother was mighty pissed that Jesus didn't bother to come home for Passover- I see a man who couldn't even wrangle an invite for a Seder- he was that unimportant to the Jews at large. Jews back then were not stupid- Jesus' no-show continues to prove the Jews were right to reject Jesus as a Messiah. I'm not gloating, as enlightened Jews are quick to admit that these so-called prophetic words you are hanging your afterlife on, aren't really breathed by G-d, but that is a topic I don't wish to pursue here. It can be read by anyone who can say , Google.
AGuest

Get real- this man had no friends in the Jewish public at large- nobody was hanging on his miracles
I would have disagree, dear Moshe (again, peace to you!). The public at large starting to follow him... versus the priests, scribes, older men, Pharisees, Sadducees, etc., was the problem. Much like with the WTBTS: the GB, Branch leaders, DOs, and COs can't have following anyone who doesn't teach what they do... so they "kill" such ones. They call it "disfellowshipping," but same thing, just as to faith... versus flesh.
( bread and fishes hidden in the tall grass ahead of time)-
Okay. But that would have had to be some very tall, very thick, grass, dear one... you know, to hide enough bread and fish to feed, what was it, 5,000 men... AND an additional number of women AND children... AND have 12 baskets FULL afterward? AND everyone was full after eating? But, okay, a likely explanation. As likely as any of the others proffered, I guess...
why, Jesus, if he was that popular wouldn't have spent Passover alone (well he had hooligans w/swords for company)
Yes, he didn't... he spent it with his friends... oh, that's right, he didn't have any friends... okay, with his hooligans, yes. Even still, wasn't alone...
- couldn't Jesus protect them?)
Of course he could. The swords weren't to protect THEM. Even so, given Peter's accurate stroke, they could apparently use them, so THEIR protection was never an issue...
on the side of a mountain- he would have been in a Seder- teaching. Oh, I know- he didn't, because it was prophecied to happen that way- convenient.
He was in a Seder... and he was teaching. There are written accounts testifying as to both...
I don't blame you SA, I never picked up on the contextual problems, either until I became a member of the tribe. Only a Jew would see these kind of problems with the Gospel accounts. (not that they care)
Of course they would... and they've had their answers to them prepared since the day they learned that he had resurrected and left an empty tomb. Given that they've had close to 2,000 years to "prepare" their versions... well, it SHOULD be good, shouldn't it? And since it's to Jews that they primarily publish these versions... then, yes, perhaps only a Jew WOULD see such problems. Again, a bit Watchtower-ish, though (you know, how some of US didn't see the "problems" of others' views of the gospels... until we became a member of THEM... and starting drinking THEIR version. No difference, really, dear one - still relying on what man... who either had reason to deny what occurred... or wasn't even there... had/has to say about it.
I am glad I didn't marry into an Orthodox family- their Seder's do last past midnight-
I'm glad... if you're glad, dear one. I mean, whatever floats YOUR boat, you know? You like it? I LOVE it (for you)!
It is telling to me that Jesus really had no place/family to celebrate the Passover with- which is just not the way of the Jews ON Passover.
K, stepfather gone (dead, actually)... and brothers/sisters not yet accepting who and what he is... and, he said that "he that does the will of my Father is my mother and my brother"... so, he was actually with "family", love. Mother (Mary) probably observing with families of fleshly brothers and sisters, but she wasn't far away (she was there when they impaled him). As for no place... well, he did what he told his disciples to do: sold his belongings, left [father and] mother... and went in pursuit of the kingdom. Didn't preclude him from having a place to observe Seder.
Jesus' mother was mighty pissed that Jesus didn't bother to come home for Passover-
Yeah, well, I think she got over whatever irritation she had when she saw his...and her... own people had done to him... for nothing other than disagreeing with how they were "representing" God...
I see a man who couldn't even wrangle an invite for a Seder- he was that unimportant to the Jews at large.
He did the inviting... and those he invited showed up, forsaking Seder with their own families to do so... and, yeah, you're right: turns OUT that he WAS quite unimportant to them. Unless he was healing, feeding, releasing (from demons)... and/or forgiving them. Otherwise, what need did they have of him, really? None... which they ultimately showed. So, yes, you're absolutely right: he was, in the end, unimportant to them.
Jews back then were not stupid-
I don't know that any ever said that. Blind, yes. Stupid? To the contrary; indeed, turns out some of them were very smart. Too smart. For their own good.
Jesus' no-show continues to prove the Jews were right to reject Jesus as a Messiah.
Well, if you're saying, as I think you are, that the fact that he didn't sit Seder with THEM proves they were right... and THAT'S the reason they rejected him... well, okay. You go on believing that, dear one. I mean, I don't know that I would sit Seder with folks who were trying to kill ME... but perhaps you (and apparently those who agree with you) would. Hey, again, whatever floats it for you...
I'm not gloating,
No, of course not - LOLOLOL! No, seriously, I am not perceiving you as gloating, not at all. Misled, perhaps (and I'm not trying to be insulting, but just truthful), but certainly not gloating.
as enlightened Jews are quick to admit that these so-called prophetic words you are hanging your afterlife on, aren't really breathed by G-d,
So, someone whose name you can't spell, let alone say, has let you know that what I've shared isn't from, through, or by means of HIS (holy) spirit? Can you ask Him why He won't tell you His name... or let you even say it?
but that is a topic I don't wish to pursue here.
Then let's drop it. I don't think you're really up to it, anyway, and I certainly am not at this hour...
It can be read by anyone who can say , Google.
That what I receive from my Lord and share here isn't really breathed by God? Truly? And so we know that those making that claim know this and are telling the truth... how? Just askin'...
Again, peace to you... and keep on keepin' on!
YOUR servant (particularly, as I am servant to the Household of God, Israel, even a least one... and all those who go with, perhaps like you...), and a slave of Christ,
SA
P.S. You do realize there are Messianic Jews, too, though, don't you? You know, those who DO have faith in Christ?
Band on the Run

Antisemitism is not nice or proper. Jesus died a Jew. Moshe, I've also wondered why he wasn't at the home of Joseph of Arithmea on Passover. Friends tell me it is a special duty to invite out of towners to Seder. One problem is that we don't know the customs of the first century well.
AGuest - I seem to trigger you than you trigger me. It is possible to comment on the gospels and raise questions. Questions we were never allowed to even think as Witnesses. The gospels were written long after the events and written by people who hated Jews. If Jesus were so popular, there should be written accounts by Roman or Jewish commentators about his ministry. He is not mentioned until after his death. Everything is reinterpreted through the Risen Christ experience of the church. If the apostles believed his ministry was so crucial during his lifetime, they should have started to memorialize it. Still, anthropologists say that preliterate cultures were able to transmit an accurate record. Something that we in a literate society can longer do.
I'm not saying the apostles lied. Rather, their interpretation of events were colored by their experience of the Risen Christ. They are quite an inept bunch until Pentecost. Peter can't even defend Jesus in this account. Losing an ear is not a lethal blow. Certainly, such an experience with Jesus would alter one's life views and allegiances. If I saw someone smack back an ear on someone, I'd rethink my beliefs. My first action would be to get myself to a psychiatric er.
People can speculate without hurting your own views.
AGuest

AGuest - I seem to trigger you than you trigger me.
Yes, dear BOTR (as always, peace to you!). I am MORE than willing to try and come to an amicable end to that, though. Always have been...
It is possible to comment on the gospels and raise questions. Questions we were never allowed to even think as Witnesses.
Indeed. May I ask: isn't it possible to also answer questions... with comments they never would have... in a way they (and possibly others who claim to know) never would have ... or would have allowed (i.e., by means of holy spirit)? I mean, what really is the POINT of leaving THEM... if you're going to allow yourself to be subjected to the same attempts at censure and censorship elsewhere?
I just don't subscribe to that kind of treatment any more, dear one. From anyone... and certainly not from those claiming to "know", but denying such knowledge as coming from/through the Holy Spirit.
In that light, others can certainly speak/say/opine/post as they will... and I will respect that... but, then, so will I. If you can respect that... then you and I are golden, always!
Again, peace to you!
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
Band on the Run

I doubt we will be golden. Jesus would have to personally work a miracle. Sniping can stop. We are both Christian women. The cattiness reflects badly on all women. Hope reigns eternal.
AGuest

Jesus would have to personally work a miracle.
Really? For us to get along... or at least respect one another's POVs (which doesn't mean we have to agree!)? Goodness, me, dear one (again, peace to you!) - I thought he'd already done that*... which is how you can state:
We are both Christian women
I am such by means of holy spirit... and so I must give glory to the One who gave me that spirit: Christ, the Holy Spirit. Sorry, but I can't do anything else. Truly.
But, again, I am MORE than willing to try. For the benefit of a good reflection... on women AND christians.
Again, peace to you!
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
* He resurrected himself, at the very least, which is the basis for our shared faith ("He LIVES!"), is it not? and if that wasn't a personally worked miracle I truly don't know what is...
jam

Band on the Run and AGuest, Peace to you both.
I can not speak for all here, but I appreciate both
of your comments on different subjects. That,s the
beauty here, we can agree or not agree. We have
that freedom. So good people, relax take A deep
breath and cool down. It,s all good.
Band on the Run

Jam,
You are absolutely correct. If we all agreed, this place would be so boring that no one would come. There is a certain entertainment value. I will strive to behave. Sometimes it is hard to disengage.

Who arrested Jesus and why was Peter not arrested for slicing someone ear.off?

Share this