by Star tiger 225 Replies latest jw friends
( According to my parents, we are decended from the tribe of Levi,
I am a descendant form the tribe of Levi to! *Does a little dance*
Really interesting thread! I want to re-read but I must get back to cooking my chilli otherwise I am going to burn it!
Peace
Interesting article Prodigal son...can't say that thought hasn't crossed my mind
While I am not sure I agree for the same REASONS, dear PS (peace to you!)... I absolutely agree that the Adversary is the "god" of the WTBTS... and religion, in general. Well, at least the three you named, unfortunately, as these have turned away from the true God... and so turn those who follow them away, as well. Rather than following the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, the God of Abraham, Isaac... Ishmael... and Jacob, they follow the leaders of such religions who, in turn, follow their own thinking and interpretations.
Hence, the call to "GET OUT OF HER... MY people!"
Again, peace to you!
A slave of Christ,
SA
Yeah - you keep pushing your new little cult AG ;)
You talk as though you have authority , the very thing you have just condemned leaders of religions for. You make bold pronouncements on doctrine which is no different to any founders of any religion and you also share another trait with them, they also claimed to speak on behalf of god ( so they, like you, argued that it wasn't their opinion it was just what they had been told to say.)
Just like every cult you pronounce that all other belief structures are wrong and based on Satan and will lead away from the 'truth'.
Just like every xian religion you lean on the bible as it suits you and reject it with your own - sorry direct quotes from your god - where it doesn't.
You claim an A+ plus relationship with god ( you get personal nighttime visits from his son who wakes you up to chat ) and claim that everyone could have this if only they would listen to your version ( every church says exactly the same and will point to their founder who had a vision / dream / discussion with god or a messenger from god ) though of course to have your type of relationship with god you need to first have faith ( good old faith - that wonderful excuse to keep trying in the face of failure .)
When pushed for evidence you fall back to mysticism and expand your written output but critically never produce one shred of evidence.
Anyhow, keep up the good work, your reward will be in heaven, if your shoulder ever heals praise Jah for the miracle if it doesn't Jah only heals unbelievers as a sign and above all keep telling people that all religions are bad - except yours.
My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)--and which I should join.
I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: "they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof."
So.... Prodigal Son, how would you propose one find the True God within? I have a friend who was a buddhist for a while and found nothing.
( you get personal nighttime visits from his son who wakes you up to chat )
My Lord also chat's to me, during the day and night, so does that make me a ''cult'' leader to??? *Gasp, shock, horror*
Peace *Giggles as backs out of this thread, cause some peoples comments are just TOOOOOOO funny*
ShadesOfGray: So.... Prodigal Son, how would you propose one find the True God within? I have a friend who was a buddhist for a while and found nothing.
Buddhism was corrupted just like Christianity, Judaism and Islam were. Buddhism teaches everlasting destruction of souls.... that's the key. It might offer a little more in the way of understanding spiritual truths but it's still a Satanic religion the way it is presented today.
It begins with the knowledge, the conviction, that your Divine Spark within you is a holographic piece of God Himself. Holograms are special because each part contains the sum of the whole. The human brain has been shown in theory to be holographic, which would explain why people can suffer significant brain damage, even having parts of the brain removed, and yet they can still achieve 100 percent memory recollection and brain function. In other words, if God destroyed your Inner Monad, he would be destroying a piece of himself, which is impossible. God cannot and will not commit suicide.
From that knowledge, there are numerous meditative practices you can try to contact your Inner God. Buddhism and Hinduism are valuable in that regard because they teach how you can quiet down the chatter of the mind to hear the intuitive "voice". It's not an audible voice like David Berkowitz heard from his dog, it's a subtle one. We all hear those little "voices" all day long that tell us how to be good human beings. Basically, it all boils down to "Gnosis".
Sorry that I'm on firefox and I can't post hyperlinks, just right click and open in new tab. Here's a good article from the same website about Buddhism and Hiduism:
http://armageddonconspiracy.co.uk/Hinduism-and-Buddhism%281702612%29.htm
One you understand WHAT you are, you become a God in the sense that you know your part in the evolution of humanity is much greater than you could have ever imagined.
Check this out:
http://armageddonconspiracy.co.uk/Do-you-have-Free-Will%281426171%29.htm
If the mind of a human is shaped by physical factors such as genetic inheritance or childhood environmental inheritance (over which no human has any control), is the mind ever free? Isn't it the slave of factors not of its choosing? Does a person with stupid parents and raised in a poor, crime-infested ghetto have true free will? Can he genuinely choose any course of action, or must he necessarily follow a path laid down for him by his poor-quality genes and hostile environment? Are criminals born or made? If children born in slums were taken away from their parents and raised in the homes of the richest people in the land, and given the finest education available, wouldn't their "free" choices be entirely different? In other words, is a person's character the product of factors outwith itself? If so, no one can be judged on the basis of their character since that character would be radically different if the processes that formed it were changed e.g. by being removed from a deprived environment and placed in a privileged one. Illumination teaches that reincarnation is the way out of the impasse. In a particular life, a person's choices are constrained by the circumstances of his life, most of which are outside of his control, but over a number of lives freely chosen by a soul, the soul's true character can emerge. If a person raised in a violent slum behaves violently, can he really be condemned? If a person born in privilege, with every advantage laid on a plate for him, leads a respectable, prosperous life, can he really be praised? Surely not. Yet in the religions of Christianity, Islam and Judaism, a soul can be condemned to hell for eternity on the basis of the outcome of a single lifetime. In these religions, no consideration whatsoever is given to the circumstances in which someone is born and raised. (The soul is imagined to be a free agent, completely unaffected by genes and environment: a scientifically absurd position to hold.) There is no justice in these cruel, Satanic religions. A soul can justly be judged and condemned only if, over a number of incarnations, it consistently chose the worse over the better, evil over good. A single life is no basis for judging a soul; a soul must be tested over a number of incarnations.
AG makes it perfectly clear that others should not listen to her, but to the Lord if/when he speaks to us. The very opposit of a cult leader who tries to say that they are the only ones with this power.
Wow Prodigal Son. I appreciate all of the time you put into your reply. Actually my friend and I both found the God within.
You see, when a Christian is born again, the Holy Spirit of God and Christ dwells within us. We do not feel as you said, unhappy and wracked with self-loathing. That is the feeling that the cult gave us, but being accepted by God and Christ actually does give us God-like qualities, self-esteem, peace and confidence.
if only they would listen to your version
... if only they would listen to Christ.
Not religion, not Shelby, not any other man/woman. Just Christ. She denounces people/religions who say that you must go through THEM, in order to get to God. I'm assuming you don't have a problem with THAT pronouncement?
Peace,
Tammy
First, thank you, dear WS, SOG and tec (the greatest of love and peace to you dear ones!), for CLARIFYING what dear Q (peace to you, as well!) seems to have an unending inability to comprehend. It is not inexplicable, though: he doesn't WANT to understand. And so, he is not permitted to. Matthew 13:11-17; Mark 4:11, 12
Yeah - you keep pushing your new little cult AG ;)
Oh, seriously, dear Q - If you knew ME, you would KNOW that I have neither the life, strength, or patience... to belong to, let alone lead, a cult. Leaders of cults (both upper and lower "management") NEED people to come to them. I actually run from it. Doing this... sharing what I do in the way I do... is not easy, not at all. Most people WANT a leader, WANT someone to tell them what to do/think. While I do like "helping" others when I can/am permitted... it's only from time to time. I just don't have it IN me... indeed, the wherewithall... to be a "pastor," "elder," "leader", "priest", spiritual leader/counselor, etc., and... ummm... "accommodate", shall we say, all of their various "needs" that those seeking may have. Particularly mentally/emotionally/psychologically. Religion has done so MUCH "damage" to so many in this regard, so that there is a LOT of this kind of need. I truly am NOT qualified to even presume upon people in this situation. All I can do is share what my Lord gives to ME... in the HOPES that some of these will get it... AND GO TO HIM. Because he CAN heal them of EVERY ailment of this kind.
But, me? Given MY 'tongue'... I would probably make it worse for them. I am much too forthright, way too blunt, often too "real"... and certainly not always "nice"... and some just aren't ready for that, aren't able to handle that. They need a MUCH gentler and certainly more worthy "counselor." I get that and so I am QUITE grateful that that is NOT the "work" he has given me... and so have NO problem sending them to HIM. Because HE is ALWAYS kind, ALWAYS mild, ALWAYS loving, ALWAYS peaceful, ALWAYS long-suffering. Always merciful. Always slow to anger. Me... not so much. As many of my posts here... including some to you... attest to.
You talk as though you have authority, the very thing you have just condemned leaders of religions for.
Not exactly, dear one. I "speak" with confidence, yes, but that's because I know from Whom I am getting what I share. That GIVES me confidence. I don't condemn religious leaders for speaking with "authority," except to the extent that what they SAY does not come FROM the "authority" they claim it does... but from a different "authority." Or that it ISN'T what they say it is. Which makes them liars... and that is what I condemn: their lies and lying. Them personally? I hope the same mercy for THEM... to come TO know (the Truth)... as I received.
I do find it interesting, though, that YOU perceive me as speaking with "authority." The same was said of my Lord, the Apostles, Paul, et al., were they not... primarily by those who rejected them? I certainly am not of the same caliber of any of these; to the contrary, a slave is not greater than his/her master. And since the same was said of MY Master... well, I think I have no choice but to consider your "take" here a compliment; apparently, SOMETHING I am saying is "tweeking" YOUR mind... and heart. Not in a good way, perhaps, but... well, it didn't do so for the opposers of my Lord, his Apostles, and others who belonged to him, either. So...
You make bold pronouncements on doctrine which is no different to any founders of any religion
Well, there is at least ONE difference: I am not "founding" any religion. To be fair, there have been Body members who thought that a new "religion" was the task and so started "dreaming" themselves leaders, coordinators, organizers, etc., and then moved to make those dreams a reality. Unfortunately, they and I parted ways (although I certainly still consider them my brothers!)... as that is not what my Lord told ME to do. To the contrary, his words to ME was that there IS no religion approved by God, that the only one that WAS... was rejected. So, I mean, what religion would I, COULD I, "found"? I only acknowledge ONE Leader... Christ... who is the One I direct all who might "hear" what I share TO. As dear SOG, tec, and WS stated.
and you also share another trait with them, they also claimed to speak on behalf of god ( so they, like you, argued that it wasn't their opinion it was just what they had been told to say.)
Again, a difference: I do NOT claim to speak on behalf of God... or for God... at ALL! NO ONE can do that... except the WORD of God... which I am NOT. There is only One Word... my Lord, the Holy One of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah). Even so, I don't claim to speak on behalf of that One, either. To the contrary, I simply share what he says/reveals/tells to ME... but tell EVERYONE that they, too, can receive DIRECTLY from him, as well! Indeed, I would PREFER it! Goodness, do you truly NOT understand the "responsibility" that comes with sharing such truths?? It's huge, dear Q. HUGE. No, I don't think you "hear" me: HUGE . And NOT to be taken lightly by ANY stretch! One's very life... eternal life... could well hang in the balance! However, the BLESSINGS that result (more understanding and truth!)... make it WELL worth taking that risk... and sharing such truths!
Just like every cult you pronounce that all other belief structures are wrong and based on Satan and will lead away from the 'truth'.
Well, I am not trying to parrot ANY cult, but the truth IS the truth, dear one. Would you rather I lie so as NOT to be considered "like" them by, perhaps, someone such as yourself (Lordy, why do people LOVE lies??)? It doesn't work like that, dear one; one MUST speak the truth... AS ONE RECEIVES IT FROM THE HOLY SPIRIT... regardless of what it makes one "look" like... and to whom.
Just like every xian religion you lean on the bible as it suits you and reject it with your own - sorry direct quotes from your god - where it doesn't.
So, because "they" have SOME things right... means they're completely right? I mean, how would they get all of the people who follow them to do so UNLESS they had SOMETHING right? But you miss the difference, once again: THEY... lean upon their OWN understanding, their OWN "interpretations" as to what the the Bible "says" and whether such is true or not, or means this and does not mean that. I have no understanding of my own to lean UPON. As I've openly admitted, even to you, I don't know these things! They are NOT mine. I can only share what I RECEIVE. And I MUST state the truth as to, about, and give the glory TO that Source. Which I do. Always. So far. May JAH grant it to always be that way, that I NEVER begin to think more of myself than necessary and even THINK any of this is mine... or from ME. THAT... would be LIE... and you are hearing that from ME. If I EVER tell you that *I* came up with any of this... THEN you will know that I am a liar and a false "christ."
You claim an A+ plus relationship with god
LOLOLOLOL! Where do you GET this stuff, dear Q? I make NO such claim! To the contrary, I have SHARED that I am a GOOD-FOR-NOTHING servant... a FOREMOST sinner... and it is because of this that I have been shown MERCY (similar to that shown Saul of Tarsus!). I have NOT stated any guarantee of my future (other than the "token", the anointing with holy spirit, the oil of exultation), but only my HOPE (because I can "profane" that hope... and lose it! Hard, yes, but can be done!).
(you get personal nighttime visits from his son who wakes you up to chat )
Nighttime... daytime... morning... noon... afternoon... in the car... on a boat... on a plane... at dinner... while walking... driving... eating... posting... playing with the puppies... talking with hubby/kids/others... reading... watching TV... listening to music... whatever... there is no "set" time/place/situation, dear one. Wee hours, good stuff, yes! But not SOLELY then...
and claim that everyone could have this if only they would listen to your version
Well, not "my" version, no, but my Lord's... but, YES!
( every church says exactly the same and will point to their founder who had a vision / dream / discussion with god or a messenger from god )
Yet, they don't stop their members/followers from following such "founders," do they? It's called the "bait and switch", dear one... and while I cannot say that I will NEVER do that (Oh, Lord, may that NEVER occur... and if it does, STRIKE me, so that I may NOT mislead ANY to the same "pit" I am destined for in such case!)... I can certainly say it ISN'T occuring now. To make SURE it doesn't/isn't... I tell everyone Who it is they SHOULD be going to. Even here, on occasion someone will ask me something and, although I respond, I remind them that they could... and SHOULD... ask for themselves! Lordy, do you KNOW how much time I would have to pursue MY life... if everyone just went to my Lord???
though of course to have your type of relationship with god you need to first have faith ( good old faith - that wonderful excuse to keep trying in the face of failure .)
Yes. You do so need. I won't water that down for you, dear Q. And, sure, you can call it an excuse - call it what you will. But you still need it, yes.
When pushed for evidence you fall back to mysticism and expand your written output but critically never produce one shred of evidence.
See, now, I have to disagree, dear one. When called for PHYSICAL evidence, perhaps. Not always (you do still have my number, yes?). But I have offered, for years, and STILL offer, that the SAME evidence that I receive... anyone else can receive, as well. Now, if others don't WANT that evidence... or can't/won't/don't ACCEPT it... or lack faith so AS to want/accept it... what can I do? I can't MAKE anyone accept that evidence... any more than YOU can make a die-hard creationist accept the theory of evolution based on the "evidence" YOU have. Such a person does not WANT to accept the theory... on ANY level... beasts as WELL as human... and NOTHING you present will ever convince them of it.
You are absolutely NO different than these, dear one; you're just on the opposite end of the spectrum. IMHO, ALL ya'll need to get back to the "middle"... you know, where the physical and spiritual MEET. And not continue to hard-heartedly stay where they are totally and completely separate: at either contrasting pole.
Anyhow, keep up the good work, your reward will be in heaven,
Well, yes, it would start there, IF, in the end, I am found to be a "good and faithful servant." But it isn't limited to there, at all. The reward encompasses the spirit realm AND the physical realm. But then you knew that, didn't you?
if your shoulder ever heals praise Jah for the miracle
It has healed greatly, praise JAH ('cause losing the use of my right arm at THIS age would be quite trying, lemme tell you!), yes, but I must certainly thank my very capable and competent surgeon. I don't know about him personally (but now that I think of it, I will ask him!) but some surgeons believe their abilities are a "gift" from God. If you ask THEM, they would tell you that THEY couldn't do what they do on their own, but only by God's grace and gift. Which THEY believe they have NO choice but to use for good. Of all. I believe the same as to MY gift(s).
if it doesn't Jah only heals unbelievers as a sign
Well, one doesn't actually have anything to do with other, actually. I was already a believer, so healing me would have done... what? Made me believe MORE? I couldn't believe more, dear one. NOTHING could make me believe more... than the evidence I had already been given: my Lord's voice and the things he tells me, first, and the things he has allowed me to see, including himself, second. So the gift would have been wasted on me. Better to use it on one who perhaps has SOME faith, but needs more, or one who has nothing but would like SOME, yes?
and above all keep telling people that all religions are bad - except yours.
I will keep telling them... that ALL religions are bad... and that if they even THINK I have, belong to, or am starting/trying to start a religion... RUN! Run... from ME... TO Christ! Because, truly, there is NO other place... or person... to go away to. There is ONLY Christ.
My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)--and which I should join.
I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: "they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof."
I'm sorry, but I'm not sure who you are quoting here; however, that people chose to follow this PERSON (the speaker)... in spite of what he/she stated here... says to ME... that they weren't LISTENING to his/her words... but LOOKING at HIM/HER. Which is what humans usually do: most want to be led by another HUMAN... someone they can SEE (because they walk by SIGHT, not FAITH)... and so they get enraptured WITH THE PERSON speaking/sharing... due to the truth of the words. Rather than becoming enraptured with the One from whom such person himself RECEIVED them, the original SOURCE. Do you see that? Paul had a problem with this, too... even saying he was glad that he had not personally baptized anyone. I totally understand what he means: it's a VERY scary thing to think that people are "following" YOU... because you KNOW that you don't know where you're going - you're only following the Voice of the Fine Shepherd. Only HE knows where he's leading you!
[Although, I thought it was interesting, if you READ what is quoted here, that it appears the writer not only answered the question, but asked it of himself, as well. Unless you/someone mistyped. Still, the answer is correct.]
Which, though, SHOULD people follow? The messenger (which they usually do!)? Or the SOURCE of themessage? Personally, I would choose the latter, the Source, as the former doesn't make any sense: he/she is only a MESSENGER. Which means, they have no "water" of their own, but can only dispense what THEY receive. Eventually, their "bucket" will dry up (if they've not kept themself employed so as to receive MORE water to dispense... from the SOURCE). What then? They start selling other "stuff" AS "water." But it's actually poison! Nope, I'd rather stick with the "fresh" stuff... even get it from the Source MYSELF, if that's at all possible.
Now, if such a person eventually turned HIS/HER face away from the Truth (Personages)... and began looking at HIMSELF/HERSELF (as did the Adversary... and so, the "false christs/prophets" who belong to HIM!)... so that he/she ALLOWED/ENCOURAGED/SOLICITED/REQUIRED people to follow HIM/HER... the PEOPLE should have known... BASED ON THE MESSAGE... that "something" was wrong. If they didn't... that will be on them... as well as on the messenger.
Do you see? I truly hope you do, dear Q. Truly. For two (2) reasons: one, because I cannot help to think but that you are somewhat intrigued, in spite of what you want me and others to believe... because you KEEP reading my posts and [re] engaging me. Why is that? Second, because I am not what you think I am and apparently wish others to think as well. You were tricked and misled, as were most of us here, myself included. And so I understand your skepticism, cynicism, anger, and disbelief. I do. Such trickery, etc., didn't affect me, however, the way it has affected you and some others. MY faith was not based in or on men (Russell, Rutherford, Luther, Calvin, Peter, Paul, etc.)... or in/on a religious institution. It is... and always was... based on and put IN God. Even though and when I did not know Him.
Now that I DO know Him... to the extent I can, I mean... by means of knowing His Son... and am known BY Him... I cannot speak other than as I do. I am sorry if that doesn't sit well with you, but it is the truth. I know that some of these others (who founded religions), but not all, eventually began to think more of themselves than is necessary. It happens. Surely, you can see how it would? But it doesn't HAVE to... and so it doesn't always. Most of the world have never heard of those for whom it didn't.
Again, I bid you peace... truly... and ears to hear... when the Spirit and the Bride say to YOU:
"Come! Take 'life's water'... free!"
For that invitation goes out to ALL... whether they hear... or refrain. Including you. Only you (and God and Christ) know which will ultimately apply to you.
YOUR servant (yep, still!)... and a slave of Christ,
SA
