by AvocadoJake 36 Replies latest watchtower bible
Does the WTS teach that the ransom applies only to the anointed, or that it is APPLIED to the anointed first. They do teach that Jesus is the mediator only for the anointed. The WTS eventually says that when the anointed die and are resurrected to heaven, they will function as priests applying the ransom to other humans.
Remember just reporting not supporting
Blondie
Jake-
The Watchtower view is very similar to the Lutheran, Presbyterian and Catholic views. Don't get your knickers in a twist over it.
WTF??? The Watchtower view is NOTHING like those three churches. For one thing, all three encourage their members to celebrate the Lord's evening meal, rather than observing some elite class observe it like beggars outside the city gates.
Does the WTS teach that the ransom applies only to the anointed, or that it is APPLIED to the anointed first. They do teach that Jesus is the mediator only for the anointed. The WTS eventually says that when the anointed die and are resurrected to heaven, they will function as priests applying the ransom to other humans.
What Blondie wrote is what they actually teach. It is in effect a glorification of the annointed to a practically "secondary-mediator" status. I am not aware of any other religion that has conceived such a notion - with the possible exception of small splinter groups having JW or Bible Students origins.
Designs, to quote Michael Jackson, "I'm bad, I'm bad...." So, no, I'm not one of the anointed. They might have to come and execute me. God would have told me if I was one of the anointed. But I do believe I'm of the raven-class. To explain that, please read 1 Kings 17:2-4. There it says that there will come a time that the ravens will bring food to the Elijah-class, i.e., the anointed.
Meni, I agree with you. I have done in depth study of Daniel, so I do believe that God has guided me to these conclusions in an indirect way. Why me, I really don't know. Because I have always been a free thinker and a bit of a rebel. I have written two books on the subject. The one on Dan. 11:40-45 startled me, to say the least. Although studious, I was always an average Joe, and out comes this lot. My e-mail is [email protected] so if you send me an e-mail address, I'll send you a Pdf of it. The US-Australia thing fits perfectly with the "thesis". It is in four parts: 1) Commentary; 2) Quick Reference Guide; 3) Supporting (news) articles; 4) 7 Technical Excurses.
Dear WTF-
Lutherans practice 'Closed Communion' and Conservative Presbyterians practice Calvin's 'Election of the Elect' or Limited Atonement and the Limited Communion Table for those deemed worthy after a review by the Deacons or Presbyters, Catholics- you must be in good standing to receive Communion and is for Catholics only, the Priest officiates the Communion on behalf of Christ. JWs likewise practice and believe in Limited Atonement- only for the Anointed now and a type of 'Closed communion Table' in that the Rank and File are repeatedly warned not to Partake under fear of social scorn and the judgement of God- that is how they apply the text from 1Corinthians 11. JWs teach that the 144,000 Priests will officiate Christ's Ransom benefits to the Great Crowd of Other Sheep.
Russell and Fred Franz as a Presbyterians and Rutherford as a Baptist carried over ideas from their upbringing and hybridized them onto this new religion.You have to follow how these things morphed but see where their origins lay.
None of what you mentioned is anything like the JW doctrine of the 144,000.
The Bible speaks of two distinct groups (other sheep, little flock), but nowhere does it say that Jesus' ransom applies to only one group. The Watchtower's doctrine of salvation through the Faithful and Discreet Slave is nothing more than an elaborate parlor trick.
-Sab
I have read bits and pieces about the WT saying Jesus ransom sacrifice only applies to the annointed. The annointed in turn, will be mediators between earth dwellers and Jesus Christ to Jehovah. To get to Jehovah, we know we must approach him in Jesus Christ name, when did the GB become the middle men between Jesus Christ and those who think they will be living on the earth. What is the basis for the GB's tinkering with the New Testament, moving our Saviour further away from us. This subject makes my heart sink, moving the Kingdom of God. If Russell had issues with his second adventist (Barbour) friend about the "Ransom." how would he feel today, this multi-level marketing system of Jesus Christ's simple words. Peace to all you!
I wouldn't fret about it because their bizarre theories are unscriptural and have been discredited countless times. Even the protestants and Catholics don't take it this far, eventhough they might share a few similarities regarding exclusivity or application. As there is only one mediator between man and God, the so-called 144,000 can't mediate it, or apply the ransom to others. Period. The Bible is clear that the ransom sacrifice applies to mankind, not only to some select group of 144,000 JWs which do not exist. And the entire idea that only 144,000 go to heaven in the first place to rule over those on earth has been so completely discredited, the paradigm for their theology is nonexistent. The information provided here should clarify any doubts you might have about the 144,000. http://144000.110mb.com/144000/index.html
It's between you and Christ and YHWH. It's rather simple. Once you break down their building blocks you realize how incredibly wrong they are in most things. All believers are under the New Covenant, and Christ is the New Covenant. Discredit their New Covenant theory and the rest collapses as well. http://144000.110mb.com/144000/i-3.html#C
Any notion that men on earth will be ruled, or reigned over, by 144,000 JWs from heaven is thoroughly debunked by the simple fact that the earth will become uninhabited after the great and mighty war that is destined at the Second Coming of Christ.
"Reign" cannot mean to rule over humans on earth, especially on an earth destined for fire and complete destruction which is made clear by 2 Peter 3:10,11: "But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a mighty roar and the elements will be dissolved by fire and the earth and everything in it will be found out. ... everything is to be dissolved this way," (NAB; "Total destruction is assumed (11)," notes 3,10). "...the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat" (2 Peter 3:12). "But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men" (2 Peter 3:7). Peter's warning reemphasized Zephaniah's warning, where the ancient prophet transmitted the Almighty's words, "I will utterly consume all things from off the face of the ground, saith Jehovah. I will consume man and beast; I will consume the birds of the heavens, and the fishes of the sea, and the stumbling blocks with the wicked; and I will cut off man from off the face of the ground, saith Jehovah" (Zephaniah 1:2,3)
Complete destruction of man on earth is intended. " Their blood will be poured out like dust and their entrails like dung. 18 Neither their silver nor their gold will be able to save them on the day of the LORD’s wrath.” In the fire of his jealousy the whole earth will be consumed, for he will make a sudden end of all who live on the earth (Zephaniah 1:17, 18). The Jehovah's Witnesses theory that they alone, their great crowd, will survive Armageddon and be ruled from heaven by the 144,000 is simply not in accord with Scripture.
The Bible speaks of two distinct groups (other sheep, little flock), but nowhere does it say that Jesus' ransom applies to only one group. The Watchtower's doctrine of salvation through the Faithful and Discreet Slave is nothing more than an elaborate parlor trick.
-Sab
Nonsense. Regarding the other sheep and little flock, Christ said they would become one group under one shepherd, who are Jews and Gentiles, together as one Christian body. You might have misspoken. Nowhere does the ransom claim to apply to two separate groups at different times, in different degrees, in different places. Christ came to save the world, there is one faith, one hope, one baptism, one mediator. One kindgom of God, one people, one body, all of whom are a kingdom of priests, one holy nation. Because the earth shall be destroyed, and other reasons, all believers go to heaven. The ransom sacrifice is applied under the New Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31-34, which all believers are parties to, and which does not distinguish between its members. There is no such thing as two groups of Christians or two, or more, salvation plans as the JWs falsely teach. The Bible does not teach that the 144,000 JWs are saved by faith but the Great Crowd will be saved by works and educated to perfection as the Company teaches, incorrectly. http://144000.110mb.com/144000/i-3.html#IVBBaii
The idea that there will be 144,000 in heaven ruling over a Great Crowd on earth is absolutely impossible and pure fiction.
http://144000.110mb.com/144000/index.html
Jesus' apostles/disciples may have been "anointed", but there's not a Scripture in the Bible that even remotely implies that they were part of an elite group of a literal 144,000 made up primarily of a 19th/20th/21st century Adventist group. None whatsoever. Ask an elder to show you the Scriptural proof and see if you don't witness some fumbling, stumbling, and serious hoop-jumping.
Christ's prayer was for those who had been given to Him, AND, all of those who would believe in Him through their message... that all would be ONE. (John 17)
Not two, but ONE.
If you apply the sheep pen and other sheep comparisons to this prayer... then I believe you get that the sheep pen are those who were given to him - his apostles - (the first part of his prayer), and then that the other sheep are those people throughout the world who will believe in him through their message (the second part of his prayer).
Those two are ONE. God in Christ, Christ in all of them.
Peace,
Tammy
