Help With The Societys View Of Jesus Ransom Applying Only To The Annointed.

by AvocadoJake 36 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  designs

  'the earth shall be destroyed' jonathan you must be a Lutheran or some other Burned-earth Christian. The Presbyterians believe that the Elect with come back here with Christ and spend eternity right on good ol Terra Firma.

  james-woods. Sorry you can't get it, restudy Calvin's doctrine of Election of the Elect and Limited Atonement and then go through Russell's Studies In The Scriptures and Rutherford's early Works and maybe you'll see the dots connected, maybe not we don't see eye to eye on economics either
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  meni

  Johnathon Flanders you are so zealous,, In Mark ch8 v22 Jesus took the hand of a blindman and led him out of Bethsaida ,he than spat on his eyes then laid his hands on him, Why did he take him out of the village and why did he spit on his eyes ? Numbers ch 12 v14 says it was a humiliation for an israelite to be spat on, Jesus had already healed many without spitting on them. Jesus then asked him ,Do you see anything? The man couldn't see very well, but he could see a little, he answered I can see men because they look like trees but trees can't walk. The man reasoned after being humbled. Jesus than layed his hands again and he saw very clearly from then on ,he warned him not to go back to that village again.

  Psalm 37v9,10,11. If the wicked are gone and the righteous and meek are left,who will Paul and Peter rule over 1 cor4v8,9, 1 peter ch2 v5 v9 as Kings and priests, You do not have the glory of the first century ,with the regathering of the remnant in these last days,but still it is wisdom on Gods part . Solomons temple was far more glorious then the remnant that rebuilt the temple in Ezra and Nehemiahs time .never the less it was only the Levites who were entrusted with the gold and silver to be taken back to the temple from Babylon ,without any military escort from Darius , Ezra ch8 v22 v30

  All israel worshipped at the temple but only the priests could access the Holy and whilst maybe they could see the end of the posts of the ark of the Covenant only the High priest could enter. Jehovahs temple courtyard is the earth, Trees can't walk Psalm133 v2 Zechariah ch8 v23

  The remnant today are damaged goods for the most part, Zechariah ch3 v2 ,most wood pulled from a fire is burnt Zechariah ch 3v4 the ransom covers them as well as everyone else , just like it did in the courtyard in the temple as Paul said "you have not begun ruling without us have you"they are fools for christ . but they have a promise Zechariah ch3 v7 Isaiah 61 v6 Rev 20 v6
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  Vidqun

  Meni, enjoyed those scriptures, especially those in Is. and Zech. And I can see that humility is an essential ingredient "for your eyes to be opened". Interesting that the anointed would gradually deteriorate. I agree, the anointed on earth today are certainly damaged goods, imperfect, part of the dregs of humanity that has to face the time of the end.

  What do you think of Is. 19:18? Five Canaanite-speaking cities in the land of Egypt swearing by God's name (cf. Dan. 11:41 Canaanites to escape, Egypt - the world - will not escape). One of the cities is called "City of tearing down". I gather from this that God's people (as a group) will be disbanded, later to be built up again (Jer. 1:10; 2 Cor. 10:4,5; cf. Amos 9:11, 12). On the other hand, the anointed will be purified (perhaps by persecution, even dying?). Then they will be called City of Rigteousness, Faitful Town, after being resurrected to eternal glory (cf. Is. 1:25-27). Any thoughts on the matter?
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  designs

  Gosh we haven't had good ol fashioned Dispensationalists on for a long tiem.
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  Vidqun

  Designs, allow us a little leeway here. If there is an Almighty God (which I do believe in) then he will have left us "a road map" to guide us through these perilous times. Granted, most religious groups want the prophecies to apply to themselves and their situation. A good example is the Maccabees (see the interesting prophecy at Dan. 11:14), another is the breakaway Essene group, who collected the DSS. The end of their system did come with the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans. This I call historical reality. But as Jesus pointed out, that was only a partial fulfilment.

  Today we have many groupings doing the same, e.g., the Witnesses. But for me personally, the evidence is overwhelming that we are living in the time of the end, or as Daniel puts it "in the final part of the days" (NWT) or "the latter days" (KJV). I see historical reality in current happenings.

  Most scholars want the prophecies of Daniel to apply to Antiochus IV Epiphanes because they believe there cannot be a predictive element in prophecy. I disagree. A definition of prophecy is "history written in advance." And as above thread suggests, God has always had a remnant of holy ones that He has kept safe. These ones are special because they will one day rule, alongside their Master, Jesus Christ. On above premises I build my faith, and yes, time will tell whether I am going to stand or fall.
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  designs

  Vid- I find it interesting, it reminds me of the 60s when Fred Franz was in full swing and of the brief period I spent with the Bible Students after I left the JWs.

  Regards
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  cofty

  Russell's understanding of the ransom was that only Adam was involved.

  One redeemer was quite sufficient in the plan which God adopted, because only one had sinned, and only one had been condemned. Others shared his condemnation...One unforfeited life could redeem one forfeited life and no more. The one perfect man, "the man Christ Jesus," who redeems the fallen Adam (and our losses through him) could not have been a ransom for all under any other circumstances than those of the plan which God chose. - Divine Plan of the Ages 1886 p.132

  Russell taught that Adam's sin was foreknown and foreordained by god and that having been redeemed by Jesus' sacrifice he would be physically resurrected and live forever. The rest of mankind were redeemed vicariously since they were unborn in "Adam's loins" when he sinned.

  The ransom for all given by the man Christ Jesus does not give or guarantee everlasting life or blessing to any man. But it does guarantee to every man another opportunity or trial for life everlasting. - DPofA

  Rutherford initially continued with this doctrine..

  By dying he reduced his perfect life to an asset that might thereafter be used to release Adam and his offspring from death ... Jesus must reduce his perfect humanity to a purchasing value, which we may call merit, and which merit or purchasing value would be sufficient for the payment of Adam's debt and release Adam and his offspring from that judgement. In order to provide this price it was necessary for Jesus to die. - Harp of God 1921 p.140/142

  A major change happened in 1939 with the publishing of the book Salvation. Rutherford decided that Adam could not be fogiven after all.

  The judgement entered against Adam was just, it must stand forever... This text (1Tim2:6) does not say or mean that Adam was or is ransomed, but does mean that the human perfection once possessed by the perfect man Adam (and which human perfection carried with it the right to life, which life and right thereto were forfeited by the wilful disobedience of Adam) is purchased or bought back or ransomed for Adam's offspring, who were prevented from receiving that life and right thereto by reason of Adam's sin - p.176.

  The emphasis then was still on the value of Jesus' life rather than the significance of His death. But rather than, Adam, it was now "human perfection" and a "right to life" that Jesus had redeemed. JWs have taught essentially this strange hybrid doctrine ever since.
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  meni

  Vid I answed some and then lost it all scrolling back, Too tired! off the top of my head.( Dan ch 2 Head of Gold)Babylon rules over or under cover every world power till the end.Dan Ch3 v1 to 5 (Babylons arrangement)Especially the courts system , Bar Law (Baal Law) Admiralty Law (Phonecian/Tyre law incorporated by Babylon) Ezekiel 27 v27 v33 to 36, Cannon Law (law of Vatican ) all three are from Babylon Rev 18 v17 to 24,in all the judges or magistrates are priests thus the blackand red garb with wigs,same as Masons who started around the same time with King Hiram of Phonecia in Solomons reign. All three courts can change or move the goal posts to get the bond money or internment for all cargoe (humans) All human beings are registered or birthed with a certificate of birthing and put on the international Money market which your Goverment or corporate ship borrows on with human cargo as collateral. The committee of 300 a counterfeit of Gideon and his 300 confuse the world with the wars which they have all human cargo fighting each other for no reason on borrowings their corporate ships I mean Soverign countries take in exchange for bonds which are also sold on , The 300 own all the federal reserve banks and control IMF , World Bank, All international committees on oil, Water, shipping, resourcesThey now own our banks our governments our utilities our media our our roads our airports our armies etc etc They really have in these days only become Babylon The Great. Habakkuk ch1 v5 to11. James ch4 v1 v4, In 1 cor ch 5 Paul talks about a fornicator ,probably of the tribe of reuban ,he then moves on to ch 6 and then goes to the courts until v9 telling brothers not to go there .Then goes back to fornication till v15 when he says that the bride of christ should not be joined to a harlot (twice,) maybe the expression used, the same as in Rev about Babylon the Harlot stresses the importantance of the courts in these days more so than ever , not to use them, Hayden Covengton certainly paid for his victories with a drink. Jesus and Paul gave a great witness in courts under compulsion, Is it time for the elements to be stripped for all to see,that the court system is from Babylon , armed with Gods word in a supreme court I think those well intended occupation protesters could circumvent the bird trap set by Babylons arrangement and show the world that the stealing of someones identity at birth for borrowings and investments in Wall street is fundermentally illegal, Congressman Mcfaddens report in Congress 1934, An Astounding Exposure proved at least to John F Kennedy that the whole works was fradulent and illegal from the start.They may be able to kill presidents , but they cannot kill courtrooms full of persons legally circumventing the process of law with the truths of which the highest judgement is Jehovahs as he is the Soverign owner of the earth and they do not have his permission or signature for ruining the earth and fradulently stealing the wealth of its inhabitants. by printing fiction money that has no relationship to goods and services, Owning corporations with high pe ratios is gambling/short selling shares and countries? . It is an interesting time of the end , Vid Isaiah19 all those places whether Christian, Islam or Jewish recognise Abraham.
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  JeffT

  Watchtower 1979 April 1 p.31 “Is Jesus the “mediator” only for anointed Christians? … So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the “mediator” only for anointed Christians. …The “great crowd” of “other sheep” that is forming today is not in that new covenant. However, by their associating with the “little flock” of those yet in that covenant they come under benefits that flow from that new covenant.” Watchtower 1979 November 15 p.27 Benefiting from “One Mediator Between God and Men” “They recognize that they are not spiritual Israelites in the new covenant mediated by Jesus Christ, nor part of the “chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation.”—1 Pet. 2:9. 24 Yet they do benefit from the operation of the new covenant. They benefit from this just as, in ancient Israel, the “alien resident” benefited from residing in among the Israelites who were in the Law covenant.—Ex. 20:10; Lev. 19:10, 33, 34; Rev. 7:9-15. 25 To keep in relationship with “our Savior, God,” the “great crowd” needs to remain united with the remnant of spiritual Israelites.”
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  reslight2

  A major change happened in 1939 with the publishing of the book Salvation. Rutherford decided that Adam could not be fogiven after all.

  This was actually published before in 1938; in that same year Rutherford introduced his view that all outside of what he considered to "Jehovah's organization" would be eternally destroyed at his idea of Armageddon.

  However, long before this, in 1923, he introduced a new view of the second death and the sheep and goats, in which he claimed that many who have never been englightened have gone into the second death, and thus will not be raised in the day of judgment.
  Thus, this was when he actually rejected the ransom for all that Russell taught. In 1938, however, when he stated that Adam was not covered by the ransom, he actually rejected the very basis of the ransom.

  The condemnation of Adam was not a different condemnation than that of human race condemned in Adam. If Adam is not to be restored to life, this would mean that Adam did not die the death in Adam, and must have therefore died the second death. This would, in effect, mean that the death in Adam is actually the second death. This, in turn, would mean that the whole human race was condemned in Adam to the second death. And thus the self-contradiction of this error becomes apparent.

  If Adam's sin was such that no ransom could be provided for it, this would mean that the condemnation of Adam could not be ransomed, and therefore those who are condemned in the condemnation of Adam cannot be ransomed.

  Jesus paid the debt for the condemnation upon Adam. All were condemned in one man so that only one sinless man would be needed to redeem all. The same condemnation that was upon Adam came upon the whole human race. ( Romans 5:12-19 ; 1 Corinthians 15:21 , 22 ) There was not one condemnation upon Adam and a different condemnation for the rest of mankind, as the Watchtower, and some others, teach. Jesus paid the penalty that was upon Adam. If he didn’t, then none of us have been redeemed, since it is the penalty upon Adam that is the whole basis of the ransom. If Jesus paid the condemnation upon Adam, and if the condemnation upon the human race is a different condemnation, then only Adam is redeemed, and the human race in Adam has not been redeemed. Only if it is the same condemnation could there be any application of the ransom to the whole world of mankind. And since it is the same condemnation, as can be seen in Romans 5:12-19 and 1 Corinthians 15:21 , 22 , then Jesus did indeed pay the price for the condemnation of Adam, and thus Adam is included in that ransom, and would be due the benefits provided by that ransom.