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by Twisty 81 Replies latest jw friends

  • Pubsinger
    Pubsinger

    Hi Twisty.

    Like several others here I have great reservations about your chosen statement. In fact I would go as far as to say that i think you have chosen one of the worst lines possible

    Your line hits at the very core of their control. You can't just "take a break from the organisation". And "researching the Bible for yourselves" is a big NO NO as far as their radar is concerned.

    Yep you might as well just buy that red flag and wave it high . . .

    I wouldn't be saying anything at all. Just drift and fade . . .

    You can't reason with them at all. You can't provide them with a big contradictory truth. Even if you prove you're right, you'll be wrong.

    Drift and Fade.

  • diamondiiz
    diamondiiz

    Last night she wanted to discuss our public postion to elders,friends and family who enquire about our spirituality or apparent lack thereof.

    We came to a reply along the lines of "We are taking a break from the organisation to re-examine the Bible by ourselves."

    If you tell elders, friends or family your position of research outside what wts currently teaches you may have a visit from the elders asking questions. You cannot tell anyone you're taking a break from the organization as that is same as leaving the organization which again will bring elders to drill you on what you're thinking right now.

    You have to be very careful what you say and how you say it. It also depends on the elders in your congregations as some are real pricks while some are actually caring men. When I stopped going to meetings and I told my wife I was done with JWs because I knew it wasn't the truth, my wife went and ask an elder to come and talk to me which they did. I presented my position that I don't believe in 1914 because what Russell taught prior to 1914 and showed them Russell's book "Study in the Scriptures vol3" I told them about child abuse that wts was hiding and the UN relationship. One elder (PO) didn't know any of these while the other knew of them but dismissed the importance of them. Now, the BOE were older in my congregation and the congregation as a whole was a friendly one. I think they asked me if I believed wts was God's org to which I think I said "they might be but went wrong" or "I don't know" but I don't remember exactly right now as its been a while, either way I wasn't DF until I decided to DA myself a year later after thorough research.

    My side of the family aren't JWs so I'm sure it was easier for me to take those steps, but my character would allow me to be shunned by them even if they were. So at this point as you're only investigating wts, don't say a word to anyone and making any statements of your position at this time depends on how your elders will respond because from a shepherding call you can end up in the JC in no time with everyone shunning you quicker than you think. If the elders call you, they will ask if they can come down and encourage you, they won't say they want to make a shepherding visit to you so keep that in mind. When they come to visit they will begin with prayer, and some scriptures being read and then they will tell you how they missed you at the meetings and will go over some wts articles how important it is to associate with you "brothers" and then will tell you of the dangers outside of the organization. Once they do this presentation they will start if you have anything to tell them or why you haven't been to the meetings in a while. You have to be careful how you answer any of these questions so not to give them any suspicion you're researching wts, if you tell them that, they will ask if you've been visiting apostate web sites and so forth.

    Since, you just stopped meetings you may feel guilty about no telling them your true feeling but at this point you don't want to reveal anything to them. As others said, steer the conversation in another direction if you can and whatever you do don't tell them you don't believe wts is God's channel on earth as this is very very risky. In any event, a couple of elders may show up at your door without being invited especially on Saturday morning so be prepared for that unexpected visit - they do their yearly round of "shepherding calls" which might be this time of the year so just be prepared.

  • mouthy
    mouthy

    Welcome Twisty . . & Mrs Twisty Happy to have you aboard

    I am the Granny on board...I was a JW for 25plus years I was d/f

    because i admitted I did not believe Jesus came invisably in 1914.
    I would be very careful in mentioning to family that your doubting
    the Org...My daughter & grand daughter,dont speak to me because
    of the WT rules, I now have a great grandson I can never see on orders
    of the "Faithful & discreet slave????"
    http://exjw.weebly.com/ I am not afraid of them anymore I am FREE
    in Christ the ONLY WAY! TRUTH,LIFE!!!!

  • Twisty
    Twisty

    Thank you for all the responses, and i will make an effort to not get steered into a conversation that will force me to make a statement.

    Some advice please on what to research first we are leaning towards the 607 vs. 587 teaching....

    If it seems like I'm handling this well, its only because i have been unhappy and critical of the organisation for about two years but going through the motions because i felt i was at fault and of course for my wifes sake, so although alot of the info is new about the reality of "the truth" it somehow feels vindicating.

    As Mrs Twisty said last night "I dont have to feel guilty all the time now."

    Also if you could steer me towards threads of previous people in my position it would be greatly appreciated.

    I have seen a few threads that i would like to post in the abuse thread and picture thread for a start, especially since i am very much into photography unfortunately it will have to wait as i might be on dangerous grounds regarding my identity already.

    Twisty

  • diamondiiz
    diamondiiz

    Twisty:

    Get yourself a book called Gentile Times Reconsidered by Carl Olof Jonsson. It will give you all the evidence you need to know that 607BC is wrong. The book is worth every penny. Jonsson's site is here: http://kristenfrihet.se/english/epage.htm.

    You can search for 607 in the search box above and you will find many discussions.

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt

    Although in good conscience i cant resort to an ambigous statement or an untruth.

    If you're not willing to speak an untruth, then you need to very seriously consider remaining silent. Please understand that there is no reward for speaking the truth to these people.

    What if you were wrongly convicted and imprisoned for a crime that you did not commit? What if, during your prison stay, you devised a way to escape? During your planning stages, a prison guard asks you, 'Hey, are you planning on breaking out of prison?'.

    Question: What is the reward for telling the prison guard the truth, in this instance?

    Make no mistake, you have been wrongly convicted of a crime that you did not commit, and you are in prison, planning your escape.

    If you believe these people are entitled to the truth, please examine why you feel this way. Likely, it's from WT indoctrination on the value of being a martyr.

    Here in the real world, you need to think about what is in your self-interests. Nobody else is concerned with your interests. You are in charge of your destiny.

    I wish it wasn't this way.

  • Twisty
    Twisty

    This sobering advice is much appreciated as is the link thanks.

    I think it might be best just to remain silent although even this may be held against me, it goes against my naturally confrontational nature.

    Ill be sure to let you all know of any developments.

    I had to stop myself feeding a troll or maybe he might have Dissociative identity disorder combined with the psycho-pathological condition, Megalomania (Diagnosed via wikipedia)

    Twisty

  • cofty
    cofty

    I think it might be best just to remain silent although even this may be held against me, it goes against my naturally confrontational nature.

    I can relate to that. Silence for now means you stay in charge of the situation as long as possible. I know its not easy I wanted to shout about what I had discovered from the rooftops.

  • Yan Bibiyan
    Yan Bibiyan

    Twisty, Welcome!

    I picked up one more point from you posts that potentially puts you in danger. You say:

    "... but i dont think anything can be done if im not willing to cooperate?"

    The new Elder Manual (did you even know it exists?) defines very loosely "Brazen Conduct" as pretty much any infraction that doesn't match toeing the party line 100%. I am afraid your lack of cooperation can easily be labeled...hmmmm...shall we say "Brazen".

    Take it slow, read as much as you can and the best of luck with yours & Mrs' fade.

    Enjoy freedom!

    -Yan

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    Welcome.

    There is nothing new under the sun. That scripture is true. Most of us here have either experienced what you have, or have seen and heard of many others who have done so. So, this is the wisdom - to come here [or to another venue offering similar experience] and ask for advice. I am gratified each time I see a new name here. Though I have been hanging around this forum for 7 years, it is this aspect that always lights my day.

    I believe that your basic instinct is correct in keeping isolated from the congregation and insisting that you are just studying the scriptures on your own. My only advice here [and it has prob been stated before I saw the thread or those comments] is to be VERY careful about the way you state that position. Those wishing to bend your words, could indeed make a case against you - because, as you know only too well, the position of Jehovah's Witnesses is that ONLY THEY can dispense correct understanding of the Bible. Once you have stated it to one person [and make sure it is not two persons if you can], then do not repeat it again. They will seek to use the 'two witness' rule against you if they like.

    Another tricky matter to be cautious of is this: Sometimes elders will call, one speaking to you, the other on an extension. They did this to me - seeking to get me to 'indict' myself over the phone before 'two witnesses'. The best policy here is caller ID/hang up/ignore phone calls.

    Buy some time. Keep them out of it. Think. Reason. Read. Rinse and Repeat.

    Some end up leaving religion altogether over time [I did]. Others join another church. [Did that too for a time.] Some reject the entire god-concept [Me again after years]. But whatever the eventual ending to the saga - you need time away from them, isolated from their inquiry and influences.

    I have surely just repeated very good advice found before I stated it here [didn't have time to read all 4 pages tonight.]. Good wishes to you as you seek to sort it all out.

    Namaste

    Jeff

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