by wobble 128 Replies latest watchtower bible
Sizemik:
While my skepticism remains, I feel some allowance for what seems unlikely or impossible now, should remain. So while issues can, and should, be debated vigorously, the benefit of the doubt should remain in respect to my believing friends I feel. Without their input, the issues cannot be fully probed and I don't want my hinges going rusty. I'm still willing and ready to be convinced of many things.
I applaud this outlook.
Cedars
There is certainly room to have positions on unexplained phenomenom but the likelhood that a convincing argument would be put forward from a subjective experience that had no outward manifestation is remote - if one has a skeptcal mindset.
The danger of the charismatic is such that their personal belief is so well articulated and so passionately stated that it can wed an illogical idea to an emotionally powerful statement and we can accept it. Witness Hitler who although an evil barsteward was an incredible speaker. One of the most important lessons not taught in schools (as far as I've seen anyway) is rigorous skeptiscism - doubt the claim until it has been put to the test, fact checked, verified and then still have open a scientific curiosity about the evidence so that you don't fall into a trap of absolutism.
Test, test and then still doubt the result.
One of the most important lessons not taught in schools (as far as I've seen anyway) is rigorous skeptiscism - doubt the claim until it has been put to the test, fact checked, verified and then still have open a scientific curiosity about the evidence so that you don't fall into a trap of absolutism.
This is why so many of us were not equipped with the skills to challenge the religion we were brought up in.
rigorous skeptiscism
and logic
But, say you have a benign belief in god, the divine, the spiritual world, whatever, can you claim that particular belief is rational and intelligent ?
Interesting question. I would say that my belief is rational and intelligent now because I have experienced God with my own senses. When did that change though? It seems that at some point faith is irrational.
Another thought: God is eternal. That seems irrational, doesn't it?
IMO many aspects of naturalistic origin theories require irrational faith as well.
Personal experience shouldn't be taught as general truth surely. A believer of any ilk who has received enough internal evidence to convince them has every right to claim rational and logical motives for their belief however, there aren't as many who continue to practise skeptical , rational thinking thereafter. Its a case of , well I'm convinced now who else can I convert.
I used to believe as strongly as anyone here - didn't make me right. Subjective evidence is not evidence for anyone else. If the only way supernatural intelligences communicate is subjectively then surely any preachers are just getting in the way of that experience, I don't give a flying fig if someone else's experience of a god is at night in a chat on the end of the bed or while high on LSD , that's of no worth to me and shouldn't be presented as though it was. Certainly shouldn't be attached to instructions such as , you should, you must or you will learn.
I used to believe as strongly as anyone here - didn't make me right. Subjective evidence is not evidence for anyone else. If the only way supernatural intelligences communicate is subjectively then surely any preachers are just getting in the way of that experience, I don't give a flying fig if someone else's experience of a god is at night in a chat on the end of the bed or while high on LSD , that's of no worth to me and shouldn't be presented as though it was. Certainly shouldn't be attached to instructions such as , you should, you must or you will learn.
This is right! So then what does it mean "preach the word, make disciples"?
I think preach the word was for then, make disciples is for now. But to be made a disciple, the person must be called. And then the person must choose. I do not believe everyone has to choose to survive. It was one of the first contentions (inwardly) that I had with the society. The scripture that says "knowing God means everlasting life" does not say for each person, does it?
"preach the word, make disciples"
means , for reality, the same as
"I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. Go back to the shadow. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udun! You shall not pass!"
The brain has thought patterns taught and learned from birth.
To make disciples means to interrupt that learned pattern that does not have a channel for understanding a living spirit and so introduce the possibility that the person might now seek the living spirit who is Christ.
To preach the word was the outside avenue for the transmission of the idea of a living spirit.
Now, the preaching of it is done, or almost done.
Everyone knows about christ, but everyone doesn't know that Christ lives in us who are chosen to believe and can live in them who are chosen to believe. IMO
"How do you become a fundamentalist atheist? ..." Qcmbr
I suspect that a "fundamentalist" atheist - or, at least, the form of "fundamental atheist" that Christians pose as a "boogeyman", would be someone who would want to force their attitudes and mindset upon others, especially by legislation...
Like the Jews, Christians and Muslims have done, for thousands of years...
And such "fundamentalist" [extremist] atheist legislation would probably NOT take the form of "banning prayer in school", for school is supposed to be SECULAR - a place to learn about FACTS that build the infrastructure that supports our civilization - the physical sciences, electrical engineering, mechanical engineering, and so on.
No, "fundamentalist" [extremist] atheism could be postulated as taking the form of banning prayer EVERYWHERE, even in churches... which is VERY unlikely to happen.
Most atheists are familiar enough with the extreme levels of opression employed by the Middle-Eastern Religious Three down through the ages, to be FIRMLY determined to NEVER mimic the opression that the Jews, Christians, and Muslims have employed to FORCE people to believe in THEIR particular little gods!!
Zid
