Lesson: Don't kick door #3
Is the Holy Spirit God Himself or a force like in Star Wars?
by I_love_Jeff 224 Replies latest jw friends
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Band on the Run
When I was in junior high school, the illiterate brothers read incorrectly from the text. It boggled my mind, I knew not too say anything. I could not understand if the Holy Spirit were present, they could be so off the mark. My parents dismissed it. Later, I became obsessed that by just noticing their mistake I sinned against the Holy Spirit - two men. Peter striking me dead.
The whole incident in Acts about the couple holding back money and the Holy Spirit striking them dead seems odd. I don't understand its point beyond pure terror. I am certain collection practices improved for a while. How much power could a woman have had in those days? It is completely unlike Jesus of Nazareth.
I ponder Holy Spirit frequently. Something in me wants it to work. I feel something. Is it only consciousness or yearning for God? Brain science is progressing. The problem seems to me that Holy Spirit mediates through your mind. Sometimes when I read portions of the gospel, Jesus is too radical for me. Turn the other cheek. I don't love my neighbor as myself. The fig tree always had my sympathies. I despise the Prodigal Son. Hints to me that Jesus was not the oldest child. Is it Holy Spirit or what I want? What is considered good? The Germans, Japanese were just as certain that they were doing the righteous thing.
I am unclear about current Witness teaching. Has "holy spirit" passed away to be replaced by God's organization. Jesus and Paul, the earliest writer, never mention God's organization. Paul had continuing difficulty among Christians. Should he have sucked it up for God's organization in Jerusalem? Where would be without Paul's rhetoric and theology.
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bsmart
To me, if there is no Holy Spirit the father is not GOD. The thing is I am nearly an agnostic so I am not sure where that leaves me.
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designs
bsmart- The most important step you make is to ask Questions, we never could inside the Organization.
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lifestooshort
Is this question just to test our imagination? How could anybody really know the answer to that? I think only the arrogant would provide an answer with confidence.
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PSacramento
We need to remember that "person" as was used in those days does NOT mean the samething as how we use it nowadays.
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i_drank_the_wine
I think that it's like The Force from Star Wars and just as real too.
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AGuest
Given the humor (which was good, I must admit!), I was going to refrain (may you all have peace!); however, since some have undertaken to answer your question from a serious standpoint, dear I Love (peace to you!), I would like to respond. Thank you!
There are two (2) things that have the description "holy spirit":
1. The Holy Spirit, which is the resurrected and glorified Christ. He is a spirit (being) and the "Holy" One of Israel. Thus, Paul wrote in his third letter to the Corinthians that "the Spirit is the Lord." HE is the "Propitiatory" covering, the "Comforter" that would be "with" his sheep IN SPIRIT, even though absent in body. (2 Corinthians 3:17; 1 John 2:1, 2). He is not God, but is the SON of God.
2. Holy spirit, which is the life force of the MOST Holy One of Israel (God): His blood, breath, and semen (seed). All life comes from such, even in humans. No blood, no life. No breath, no life. No semen (seed), no life. This "force" is what resurrects, heals, begets, etc., IN SPIRIT, as well as in flesh. As blood, it cleanses as well as speaks (1 Thessalonians 4:7, 8; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 Peter 1:2; Genesis 4:10; Hebrews 12:24) . As breath, it turns lifeLESS souls (bodies) into souls with life IN them (Genesis 2:7; 1 Peter 3:18). As semen/seed, it put life in Mary, as well as in the "Woman," whose "seed" it fertilizes so as to "adopt" such as "sons" (Matthew 1:19; Revelation 12:17). Through this, these are eventually born... again... but this time, in the SPIRIT (the first time is in the flesh).
Both are called "holy spirit" because (1) Christ is a spirit and has been gloried so that HE is the one called "Holy", and (2) God's own life force... His blood, breath, and semen... is holy in that it cleanses, grants life, and begets. It is this "cleansing" by means of holy spirit, God's blood... which blood is dispensed by Christ... he, the cistern and distributor OF it (John 4:14; 7:37; 1 Corinthians 10:4)... by means of which some are called "holy ones." They have been cleansed, by means of an anointing with such spirit/blood.
It is this holy spirit, God's blood, breath, and semen... that is being referred to as the "water of life". (Ezekiel 47:1; John 7:37-39; Revelation 7:17; 22:1, 17). And it is what John meant when, at 1 John 5:6-8, he wrote:
" This is he that came by means of water and blood, [Jesus] Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. And the spirit is that which is bearing witness, because the spirit is the truth. For there are three witness bearers, the spirit and the water and the blood, and the three are one."
[Note, the words "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one," were NOT included in ANY of the early translations. They appear in four of five very late Greek manuscripts - as well as a 1977 translation of the Latin Vulgate, but not prior - hence, the "false pen of the scribes").
Now, I get that some here will dispute the truths I've shared with you... and that is there perogative. What I have offered here, however, is simply an explanation for the question you asked. This is what the WRITERS meant... when they referred to the Holy Spirit... and holy spirit.
I hope this helps and, again, peace to you!
A slave of Christ, the Holy Spirit,
SA
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Vanderhoven7
Although we don't always know the mind of the Holy Spirit, He would be grieved if we lie to Him. Thankfully the Holy Spirit makes intercession for us with groanings that cannot be uttered so that we might know the will of the Spirit for our lives.
Mind/intellect, will, emotions = very active force...like 10,000 volts of electricity ;o)
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AGuest
Greetings, dear Vanderhoven, and the greatest of love and peace to you! I'm not very good at "disagreeing", sometimes, so I must ask you to bear with me and not read any intent to offend (which is absolutely NOT there!) into my comments. Thank you!
we don't always know the mind of the Holy Spirit,
My understanding is that while it's true that we cannot know the mind of GOD, the MOST Holy One of Israel... those in union with Christ can certainly know HIS mind (Christ, the Holy One of Israel BEING that Holy Spirit)... because once joined TO him... they have HIS "mind". At least, Paul thought so (1 Corinthians 2:6; 2 Corinthians 3:17; 1 John 2:1, 2) and I have to agree with him on this.
Thankfully the Holy Spirit makes intercession for us..
He does! Christ, the Holy Spirit... our MEDIATOR... is the One who pleads... intercedes... and so "stands in the gap"... on our behalf, yes? (Romans 8:34; 1 Timothy 2:1-6; Hebrews 7:22-25)
with groanings that cannot be uttered so that we might know the will of the Spirit for our lives.
Well, no, dear one, our Lord does not do this. It is OUR spirit that so groans... because sometimes WE can't find the words. Yet, because it is OUR spirit that so pleads... HIS spirit understands... and so HE is able to plead FOR us. (Romans 8:23, 26, 27, 34; 11:2)
The confusion exists because Bible translators ("scribes") didn't/don't know what holy spirit was/is... versus WHO the Holy Spirit is. If one relies on the anointing one has received... and/or the voice OF the Spirit (John 10:27)... one will know the difference... as well as who that Spirit is (and that "he" is NOT a third "person", at all).
Again, I mean no offense but only to share the truth of this matter.
Peace to you!
YOUR servant and fellow slave of Christ,
SA