Okay, back to the "serious" stuff...
No need to apologize to ME, dear TS (the greatest of love and peace to you!). Just glad you got the point (never doubted you would, though! ). Now, for your other comments; please note, however, that if you decide not to read the verses I cited... or go to Christ himself and ASK... you may not understand much of this. The choice is yours, of course. Now, then:
Are you saying that Yahweh had a wife and if so, was this wife eternal or created? Jerusalem above is her name? Are we talking of a seperate entity?
He has two (2) "wives", dear one: the spirit realm... which is free (as are her children)... and the physical realm... which is enslaved (as are HER children). The first is named "Jerusalem Above" and is represented by "Sarah"... and the NEW Covenant, which is a covenant for FREE sons. The second is the earth and is represented by "Hagar"... and the OLD Covenant, which is a covenant for SLAVE sons. The verses at Galatians that I cited explain this.
God's purpose in creating Adam was that he and his wife Eve were to live forever in paradise.
No, dear one, that was not the PURPOSE - that was the GIFT. The PURPOSE... was to hide the seed (of the Woman) from its enemies in the spirit realm... until such time as it (they) could be "fertilized" by God's holy spirit (semen) so as to be MORE of His sons by that Woman. Together with Christ, these make up the ONE "christ child" - he being the HEAD... they being the Body. Ephesians 6:12; Revelation 12:1, 2, 5, 17; 2 Corinthians 4:7; Colossians 1:18; 1 Corinthians 12:18
To keep with His original creation of man through Adam, and not keep trying to find an alternate human line that would obey Him,
I am not quite sure what you mean here... or how/why you've come to this understanding, so I can't comment on it other than to say there was never going to be an "alternate" human line. There was always only going to be one... and only one... and because it held the seed, it HAD to be redeemed.
God gave undeserved kindness because Adam and Eve were warned that life and death rested in their hands.
I can see how you might interpret that that's what they were warned of, but that's not quite accurate. I will elaborate below...
If they obeyed Him they would have life but we all know what happened
This is not quite accurate; it wasn't that if they obeyed God they would have life. It's that if they obeyed Him they would LIVE. They already had life, dear one... and it wasn't taken away because they "disobeyed." They not PUNISHED with death; death was merely a CONSEQUENCE of their actions.
and because their offspring were born into sin, it can be said they inherited Adam and Eve’s sin secondhand.
The offspring inherited the BODY Adham and Eve were given after there sin (a "long garment of skin")... which garment had sin and death in IT. Since the bodies they possessed by the time they procreated had sin and death IN them... this was passed on to their offspring.
Although God forgave the sin it was only through the Adam and Eve's offspring who had never been perfect.
I don't understand this comment: the sin is ONLY forgiven through Christ... who, although imperfect in FLESH... was perfect in SPIRIT (unlike Adham, who was perfect in FLESH... but showed himself to be imperfect in SPIRIT). As for Adham and Eve themselves, none of us can say whether they will NOT be forgiven - their judgment has not taken place, yet. There will be a resurrection of the righteous... AND THE UNRIGHTEOUS... including Adham and Eve. Because they STILL have to stand before the Judgment (which has not taken place, yet, for ANYONE). Given the faith of Abel, who's to say that these did NOT repent once outside, so as to ALSO be forgiven? Really, since the Most Holy One of Israel shows mercy to whomever HE wishes to show it... how can any of US say who will NOT be shown such mercy? We can't, truly.
This had to be accomplished according to God’s wisdom and laws. To do that, He asked the Word if he would willingly give up his life in exchange for sinful humans. The Word agreed to do so and in exchange, God agreed to give Christ a Kingdom with those that were saved.
You are in error, here, dear one. That is not how it occurred and we can look to three (3) things to show us that: first, the Abraham's attempted sacrifice of Isaac. Isaac had NO idea that he was to be the sacrifice; however, because of his love FOR HIS FATHER, Abraham... he agreed. Once he knew he was to be the sacrifice, he agreed because he loved... and TRUSTED... Abraham, that Abraham knew what HE was doing... and so it would be okay. Second, we can look to Christ's own words, that "GOD... so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son." Not that CHRIST so loved the world (although, he did!). But, like Isaac, Christ gave HIS life... because it was what the FATHER wanted him to do! To show HIS love... for the FATHER... and do HIS (the Father's will!).
That is why Christ is also recorded to have asked the Father to REMOVE the "cup" (his need to die)... if the Father WILLED it, but that, ultimately, the FATHER'S will... and not HIS (which was NOT to die!)... be done! He loved... and TRUSTED... the Father SO much... that HIS concern was with the Father's will... and not his own.
Because he showed this love... and loyalty... HE was considered "worthy"... to receive the kingdom. It was not a "Give your life for them and I will give you the kingdom," deal, dear one. If that were the case, then our Lord did NOT give his life for LOVE... but for property and power. He is not like THAT, though, at ALL. Such things were NEVER important to him; the ONLY thing important to him... was the Father's will. Thus, if the Father had said, "Give you life"... but offered NOTHING in return... he still would have given it. For LOVE.
The reason God did not keep creating other humans as test subjects, is because his covenant was with Adam’s line of decent.
Ummmm... there was no covenant with Adham's line of descent, dear one. There was a covenant... with the Woman. A "marriage vow" of sorts. As to her... and, more importantly, her children. The first covenant He made with MAN... occurred many, many generations later, when He covenanted with Noah not to completely destroy man (and beast) by water ever again.
The human line comes from that single man and woman. To keep his will in line for what he originally wanted, God sought to do it through the first human couple. If he had killed them immediately, none of us would be here but that was not God's will.
He NEVER killed them, dear one. Like many others, you are relying on the LIE... that God warned that if Adham and Eve ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good (life) AND Bad (death), He would kill them. NEVER was that the plan, NEVER was that ever said or implied! He WARNED them that IF they ate... they would die... BECAUSE of eating from that particular tree. Like a loving parent who warns his children not to touch the stove because if they DID... they would be burned! NOT that if they did... he would KILL them for doing so! To attribute such a thing to the Most Holy One of Israel is to paint Him unrighteous. Why? Because the "punishment" would never fit the crime! So, that, dear one, can NEVER be!
He "punished" them by (1) giving them a long garment of skin (which would enslave them as well as cause them to know pain... and death... but they would need in order to live in the world OUTSIDE the garden, the land of which He (2) cursed; then (3) putting them OUT of the garden (so that they couldn't get back to the Tree of LIFE... and eat and live forever!); and (4) blocking the way so that they could not re-enter.
Pretty harsh, yes, but not death - He didn't KILL them. He never even CONSIDERED killing them! Why? Because... THEY HELD THE SEED. If THEY died... the SEED would die! He couldn't kill them, then; rather, He had to make a provision to redeem that seed! And... He did!
He wanted mankind to survive, therefore, God did not want to keep testing different lines of humans.
He DID want earthling man to survive, so that the seed could survive... and be born. Had nothing to do with other lines of humans, though...
This is where undeserved kindness enters because it helps to bring those that love God and His Son back to Him.
I understand undeserved kindness (mercy) and how it brings those who love God and Christ back to Him. I do not understand, however, how this relates to what occurred in Eden with regard TO those sons. Those sons receive undeserved kindness/mercy as to their OWN sins... not Adham's or Eve's... Otherwise, what you're suggesting is that "we" must pay for THEIR sins. We DIE, yes, because of their sins... because of the BODY'S we inherited from and thus possess due to them. But that death is TEMPORARY (well, can be!). On the other hand, it is our OWN sins that we must be forgiven for... every one of us... not theirs... so as to live FOREVER. To have to pay for THEIR sins... would also be unrighteous. It would come under the "law" of the sins of the father coming upon the sons... which law was done away with long, long ago.
We are not held RESPONSIBLE for their sins; we only reap the results. Since we're NOT responsible... a Saviour was provided to turn back those results. IF, however, we also have our OWN sins to answer for... and we all DO... then simply undoing what Adham/Eve DID... would not put us in line for life, dear one.
This is where I must disagree. Death is a state of inactivity whereby the life force of a spirit or individual ceases to exist.
The force of life cannot cease to exist, dear one... unless it is destroyed. Hence, the Lake of Fire, where even Death is hurled. In the meantime, the individual only sleeps... lies in a state of unconsciousness. Until he/she is resurrected... either to life... or to judgment. If that life force ceased to exist, what, then, can BE resurrected? There is nothing TO resurrect... for "it" ceases to exist, if what you suggest is true. If it ceases to exist... it is completely and utterly GONE. No... longer... in... existence. Yet, there will be a resurrection... with those in the grave/memorial tombs, etc., sea, Hades/Sheol... coming OUT... either to life or to judgment. How can this BE... if they no longer exist??
How did Christ go and PREACH to the spirits of those who had died... if HIS spirit... and theirs... had CEASED to EXIST???
Death is not a person, though I see the symbolism in that God will "swallow up death forever."
Death absolutely is a person, a spirit being. He is the "one" who took the breath of all of Egypt's firstborn before the exodus. He is the one that is named "King" over the abyss... the pit... where SPIRITS that sin are confined. He... is also cast into the Lake of Fire... and so swallowed up forever. He is the one whose "sting" torments us... but only as a sting because his "bite" is not permanent. HE is the one who "takes" our loved ones... NOT God!... because HE is the one to whom our foregather, Adham, SOLD us.
But REPURCHASE us... Christ gave HIS life to Death. Death, however, was not able to hold HIM because he was given the "keys" so as to release himself FROM Death's grip.
Death is not a human, no. But he is definitely a personage, a spirit being... "the last enemy".
It took many centuries for Adam and Eve to die. Since God did not immediately kill them, some of the angels took note of this.
It took many centuries for them to die for one reasons: the effect of eating from the Tree of Life took time to wear off. Remember, had they gotten back in and ATE... they would have lived... FOREVER. Ate... just ONCE. Once... and they would LIVE FOREVER. Does that not tell you the power and effect of THAT tree... from which they had been eating all along (because they could eat from EVERY tree in the garden EXCEPT the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Bad. Every tree... INCLUDING the Tree of Life... which they absolutely DID eat of... and regularly!
After a few hundred years when mankind had grown and Satan was still free, the angels thought God was not going to do anything to the first human pair of the Devil.
Ummmm... this is a serious WTBTS error, dear one! God DID something: He kicked them OUT and made them fend for themselves for the most part! They had it GOOD in the garden, but... no more. He didn't kill them, no... but that was never part of the plan anyway! He never said, ever even INTIMATED that He would kill them! That is MAN's manner of punishment for such a transgression, not God's, not at all!
They did not know that 1,000 years is like one day to God, so they grew impatient,
Wait... spirit beings were around "aeons" before man. How would they have NOT known? They were there when the physical realm came into existence... which took quite some time. Time is nothing to THEM - it only has relativity for US. The impatient occurred NOT because nothing was done about Adham and Eve - there was a rebellion already brewing, hence the NEED to hide the seed. Belial (Satan) brough that rebellion into THIS realm - HE was the first to "rebel" when he lied to Eve. Why did he do this? Because he... and other spirit beings... RESENTED that the seed would inherit the kingdom! They believed it should go to THEM... not to tiny, puny, whiney, disrespectful, disloyal, and unfaithful MAN.
When God EXTENDED His love to man... these grew even more wrathful... and so set out to destroy that seed. Hence, Satan started with getting Adham to SELL that seed... in exchange for the "right" to KNOW death (bad)... and yet, live. Only two held the "keys" to that right: God... and Death. Since Adham was convinced that God was withholding it FROM him... he made a deal with Death. Except... both of them underestimated God: Adham, in that he died after all... and Death, when HE accepted a NEW "deal" - Christ... in exchange for all of Adham's progeny. Death took that "deal" believing himself to be the "winner"... because he would get the Son. No Son... no heir to the kingdom.
But, again, that Son was given "KEYS"... so that Death could not hold him in HIS (Death's) realm. Those keys were not literal metal sticks - they are faith, love, and justice. By means of THESE, Christ was able to release himself FROM Death... and death's realm. When he died... HIS spirit did not cease - no, he went and PREACHED to the spirits of others who had died... as well as spirit beings who are confined to the "pit", the lowest part of the world of the dead.
but in God's mind, Adam and Eve did die in the day God said they would.
Another WTBTS teaching. They BEGAN to die, yes, but didn't. And that "a 1,000 years is as one day" has absolutely NOTHING to do with Adham and Eve's life span... but Christ. Oy vey, dear one... you really should consider letting it ALL go... and rather than trying to put new wine into an OLD wineskin... starting over with an entirely NEW wineskin! Tear it DOWN... ALL THE WAY down... to the foundation... and let the "Cornerstone" build on it, again.
More angels took note and they pursued their own selfish desires, wanting to live on earth as humans.
The Nephilim? No, no, dear one. Like Satan, they were SENT here. PLACED here... "in the earth." This was their TERRITORY (as Eden was Satan's - Ezekiel 28:13-17). They had a reason and PURPOSE to be here! That reason/purpose did NOT, however, include taking human women as wives. No more than it included Satan (who was supposed to look after and protect the garden and its occupants) talking Adham and Eve into eating in opposition to what God has instructed them!
I was told that death can occur in the spirit realm.
You were told wrong, dear one. Spirits don't die. Death EXISTS in the spirit realm, yes, he does; however, death... the cessation of life (which is NOT the same as the cessation of existence, but is simply cessation of the animation of the body and its functions, and the its return to the dust, etc.)... does not occur there. Spirit beings don't have BODIES that die. That is why the Nephilim had to put OFF the bodies they occupied (in order to procreate WITH human women) at the flood. The water confined THEM, however (which is WHY a flood had to occur: fire destroys spirits; water confines them. Hence, Legion being sent into swine... which were sent into water!).
It is a switching off of energy. Only the creator can reanimate spirits.
That energy returns to Him, dear one - it doesn't swtich off. When the time comes (resurrection), He sends it BACK, places it BACK... in the bones from which it came.
As for immortality, only the Creator has true immortality, all other creation exists because God exists and without God all things would cease to exist because by his spirit we live.
Well, I guess it depends on what you (and others) mean by "immortality." Mortality means something can/will die. Immortality means it does not. You quote 1 Timothy 6:15-16, where Paul is recorded to have said God, alone, "is immortal". I agree that the Most Holy One of Israel ALONE... cannot be destroyed (which is a form of immortality, yes - even Christ can be destroyed; however, HE is immortal, as well). But you have to take care with what "Paul" supposedly wrote because of (1) the false pen of the scribes, and (2) some of what is attributed TO him was not even written BY him and so may not agree with what "he" wrote elsewhere. For example, "Paul" is ALSO recorded as writing:
Romans 2:6, 7 (NIV)
"God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing goodseekglory, honor andimmortality,he will give eternal life.
and...
1 Corinthians 15:16, 17 (NIV)
"I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”
and...
2 Timothy 1:9, 10 (NIV)
"So do not be ashamed of the testimony about our Lord or of me his prisoner. Rather, join with me in suffering for the gospel, by the power of God. He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ [Jesus] before the beginning of time, but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ [Jesus], who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel."
So, how does one know which is right, indeed, what IS immortality? Again, one only need ask the One who knows... and who speaks nothing but truth, Christ... the Holy Spirit.
Again, I must disagree here. The JWs do not believe in life after death.
Not sure what you're disagreeing with. I don't agree with JWs, that when one dies, their spirit dies. You, however, seem TO agree - per you, when one dies, their life force (spirit) "ceases to exist". That suggests to ME... a disbelief that there is life after death. Am I misunderstanding you?
I believe that when we die, we pass over to the spirit realm. Those marked by Christ because of their conduct "cross" over into the light, they become Holy Ghosts. They can then petition to be a guide to humans on Earth.
Can't be, dear one... because none precede others to the resurrection... excluding, of course, Enoch, Moses, and Elijah, three who were transferred (changed) so as not to SEE death (which is why Peter, James, and John saw the latter two WITH our Lord when he transfigured. All others must wait (Revelation 6:11) until the number is complete and Christ returns to gather them (Matthew 24:29-31; 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17).
Those person who pass over and receive an education concerning Yahew's sovereign Law and choose to reject his Rulership, they become converts, because they are converted to Satan's way of thinking.
I know absolutely nothing of this... and not sure where YOU got it... so I will reserve comment, for now.
They want a world they left behind not a world of righteousness under God's rulership. The converts remain on this planet and spend their time bothering people, playing tricks on them, especially in the ghost hunter TV shows.
Okaaay...
As for babies and children, they’re under special arrangement with the Creator when they pass over. Christ made note of this at Matthew 18:10: "See that you don’t look down on one of these little ones, because I tell you that in heaven their angels continually view the face of My Father in heaven."
While the first part of this is true, you misunderstand the second part. THEY are not in heaven, but asleep. While they SLEEP... their angels stand before the Father... in the spirit realm... and "remind" Him of them (they are like placeholders).
Sometimes problems occur with children who are up in age and can understand some of what has happened.
Okaaayyyyy...
Young children are not required to do anything more than, receive the promised hope mentioned at Colossians 1:5 "The hope that is being reserved for you in the heavens." Children who are of an age where they understand what has happened are sometimes apprehensive about accepting the Creator's arrangement because they do not wish to leave the first plane of existence. They do not understand fully what has happened to them and they want to be back with their parents. In some cases, children are watched over by Holy Ghosts until they can be persuaded to leave the lower planes.
Okaaayyyy...
Those who were unlawfully killed or died an accidental death pass over immediately.
Sorry, dear one... can't happen. Neither the graves, memorial tombs, altar, sea, death, or Hades... have been opened, yet. As for your other... ummmm... "understandings"... I have not heard of them... nor do I know from whom you received them, so I must again reserve comment at this time.
In the case of murder, the victims do not normally seek revenge. If a victim that was crossed over does not want to go with Holy Ghosts they cannot be made to do so. In many cases, victims are so upset that someone took their life, they stay where the crime took place, often haunting it, because they cannot accept their life is over. In most cases, they had a full life ahead of them, wife, kids, career etc. They are left alone to work things out.
Since I do understand that spirits DO live... I cannot dispute this; however, I have not heard of such from my Lord... and have never ran into such a spirit, although one of my gifts is discerning/hearing spirits. I have to say, however, that this seems in direct contradiction of your assertion above that when one dies their life force... and thus, spirit... "ceases to exist." How can a spirit, young OR old... seek revenge, hang around and haunt a crime scene... or deny their life is over... if their life FORCE... has ceased to exist?? Or am I misunderstanding you (again)?
As for those who led vile lives, they are spiritual tagged. When they pass over, they are apprehended and taken to the Creator where their crimes are played out by witnesses.
Before the Judgment?? How can that BE?? Is there more than one "Judgment"... something other than the one that takes place AFTER the 1,000 years have ended, AFTER Gog and Magog, the Wild Beast, False Prophet, and Satan have been destroyed (Revelation 20:7-15; Daniel 7:9-14)??
Sentence is passed and they are taken to dark realms of imprisonment until the final judgement.
So, two judgments, then? An initial one before the Creator... and then a "final" one? Interesting. I have not heard this, sorry. Can you share with us, please, from where/whom you received this understanding? I would appreciate it as I have nothing to base a reference on and perhaps that would help ME see what you [see].
I think that's enough, for now... and I, too, am enjoying our discussion." I hope you don't take my... ummmm... dissentions/disagreements... as an indication of a lack of love; nothing could be further from the truth. I have learned that one can possess a measure of holy spirit and yet not have an accurate knowledge as to God or Christ. Like Apollos. But "iron" sharpens "iron" does it not... and so perhaps we will both learn something "new." I intend to ask my Lord about all that you have stated here that I have not heard... and will certainly share what I hear, if am so privileged.
Again, peace to you... and thank you for taking the time with me!
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
