In the LAST DAYS (mockers, scoffers) ridiculers will come saying:

by Terry 100 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    The apostles did indeed seem to believe that Jesus would come "sooner rather than later".

    That was their mistake because Jesus himself told them that know one knows except God, accordging to the beginning of ACTS he admonishes them for asking and reminds them to focus on the task of spreading the Gospel and being witnesses to HIM.

    Acts 1
    Introduction

    1 The first account I composed, Theophilus, about all that Jesus began to do and teach, 2 until the day when He was taken up to heaven, after He had by the Holy Spirit given orders to the apostles whom He had chosen. 3 To these He also presented Himself alive after His suffering, by many convincing proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days and speaking of the things concerning the kingdom of God. 4 Gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, “Which,” He said, “you heard of from Me; 5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

    6 So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, “Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority; 8 but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.”

    The Ascension

    9 And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them. 11 They also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven.”

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    Matthew 24:

    Matthew 24
    Signs of Christ’s Return

    1 Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him. 2 And He said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.”

    3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

    4 And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many. 6 You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes. 8 But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.

    9 “Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. 10 At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. 11 Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. 12 Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. 14 This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

    Perilous Times

    15 “Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. 17 Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house. 18 Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. 21 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. 22 Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. 23 Then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe him. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. 25 Behold, I have told you in advance. 26 So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them. 27 For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.

    The Glorious Return

    29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

    Parable of the Fig Tree

    32 “Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; 33 so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.

    36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. 37 For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left.

    Be Ready for His Coming

    42 “Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming. 43 But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into. 44 For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.

    45 “Who then is the faithful and sensible slave whom his master put in charge of his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes. 47 Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48 But if that evil slave says in his heart, ‘My master is not coming for a long time,’ 49 and begins to beat his fellow slaves and eat and drink with drunkards; 50 the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour which he does not know, 51 and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt

    N.drew: I'm going to respectfully end my participation in this thread. I've enjoyed it. Thank you.

  • N.drew
    N.drew

    I wish I had cofty to help me. No, no! Cucumber! Both! I like fluff, unless it's a book, and not a mystery. What the hell am I talking about? Hey! I left this forum.. what am I doing back here? Know what? If I was sane I wouldn't laugh half as much. I'm sure of it.

  • Qcmbr
    Qcmbr

    ND. Here how may I help?

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    I think Matthew, in writing verse 24, wrote it in a way that the audience of hsi time would (he thought) understand the "apocolyptic genre" of verse 29-31 and take into account what was stated in verse 42 as making clear that NO ONE knows when the return will be.

    Muddy? yes, for sure, even more so when the first time someone is exposed to this it is under the WT infulence !

    I remember the frist time I read that passage and thought, "WTF?" that never happened, what if the Big J talking about?

    So I read up more on the WHOLE chapter, commentaries and such and it became clear that, taken as a WHOLE, the chapter is warning about TWO events, one to be witnessed by that generation (fall of jerusalem) and the other about the second coming AND alos the warnings that go with the second coming:

    It will happen AFTER the great tribulation, there will be many false "christs" and many saying the end is NOW BUT that it will come when NO ONE expects it ( hence the signs given in verse 29-31 are simply the typical apocolyptic language of 1st century gernre writing by Matthew).

  • cofty
    cofty

    PSacremento - would you agree that a natural reading of Matt 24/25 suggests that the parousia would follow on seamlessly from the destruction of Jerusalem - certanly within the same natural generation?

  • N.drew
    N.drew

    Thank you Q. But what I mean is if you and he could just see the unseen, I know you could straiten these out. With your brains and cofty's stubborness, if you could only see it, I know you could figure it out and communicate it back in right words. Words are not on my side. I can see it. I just can't explain it.

  • N.drew
    N.drew

    The End doesn't mean "the end' now does it? No, it doesn't. Then what does it mean? I guess we will have to wait and see....

    http://concordances.org/greek/5056.htm

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento
    PSacremento - would you agree that a natural reading of Matt 24/25 suggests that the parousia would follow on seamlessly from the destruction of Jerusalem - certanly within the same natural generation?

    Yep, total fubar on Matthew's part ( or the editor/copyist of the GOM).

    If you actually remove those verses, the flow makes more sense actually and so does the context of the whole chapter.

    Those verse kind of "stick out".

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