by ilikecheese 44 Replies latest jw friends
Books?
Jim Penton's Apocalypse Delayed
Heather & Gary Botting's The Orwellian World of Jehovah's Witnesses
Tony Wills' A People For His Name
or, if he's really interested in looking at where all the dates are numbers in the complex JW set of beliefs come from, Robert Crompton's Counting the Days to Armageddon.
But the fact is, no book is going to change his mind if he want to stay. He'll ignore the bad, because he's convinced it's God's organisation and he'll die without it.
I feel you ... my mom is in the same situation as your bf, it is more difficult for you to understand his feelings coz you were never under the JW mental and emotional control. My only advice is keep praying, looking for info, reading posts here (here are wonderful people with a lot of experience ) and be very very patient. A big hug,
I lost out on being with the person I adored because I was told to be a JW I had to 'dump' her so I'd be inclined not to take that advice now, no matter which side it comes from. I personally don't think think God will direct you to help him or any other hocus pocus, all you can do is to the best of your ability, present the info you have and hope they listen.
I think nugget has it spot on, they have to be ready to listen, they have a sense of belonging they don't want to let go. If he (or anyone else) wants you to give them the time of day to discuss their beliefs then it should be reasonable to be given that time yourself to explain your thoughts. For what it's worth, I'd say stick to what the bible says and leave WT material out of it, that's when it soon falls apart.
Maybe you could use Matt 8:11 and ask him where the JWs say Ab, Jac and Issac will be, heaven or earth.
ilc,
I know that you are sincere in wanting to help him. But until he sees that there is a problem, he will not want help. He is not really living up to the standards he would like to, otherwise he would not be in a relationship with a "worldly" person like you.
I would say that you should run from this guy, ASAP.
Good luck,
JK
Can you quote a few wt articles...
"One God alone could be supreme and all-powerful; and one such God could mean only one true religion, namely, the one right worship of this one supreme, almighty God. His religion is one of right belief and is harmonious in all its expressions, just as true physical science is harmonious and not self-contradictory. The true religion of the one God does not disagree with itself, deny itself or get divided with itself. If it had internal disagreement, contradiction and disunity, it could never stand; it could not be simple truth; it would disagree with the scientific laws of the universe; it could not triumph in the long-drawn-out conflict between true religion and false. But true religion must triumph, because truth cannot be destroyed. That is why, despite all the many false religions in the world, the true religion has lived through till this day..."--Watchtower 11/15/1963
“We need to scrutinize whatever is presented to us, deciding what to accept and what to reject. However, we do not want to be so narrow that we refuse to consider facts that can improve our thinking… Test whatever you are reading or watching, to see if it is truthful…”—official WT web site, http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/2000/6/22/article_03.htm
The Truth That Leads to Eternal Life 1968 p.13 Why It Is Wise to Examine Your Religion:
4 However, you have no doubt heard people say: "It doesn't matter what you believe, as long as you lead a clean moral life and deal kindly with your neighbors." But is that all there is to worshiping God in an acceptable way? These things are necessary, but God requires more. Doctrines are also involved. The Bible informs us that "the true worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth." (John 4:23) If our worship is to be acceptable to God, it must be firmly rooted in God's Word of truth. Jesus reproved those persons who claimed to serve God but who relied heavily on the traditions of men in preference to God's Word. He applied to them God's own words from Isaiah 29:13, saying: "It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach commands of men as doctrines." (Matthew 15:9) Since we do not want our worship to be in vain, it is important for each one of us to examine his religion.
5 We need to examine, not only what we personally believe, but also what is taught by any religious organization with which we may be associated. Are its teachings in full harmony with God's Word, or are they based on the traditions of men? If we are lovers of the truth, there is nothing to fear from such an examination. It should be the sincere desire of every one of us to learn what God's will is for us, and then to do it.-John 8:32.
Egypt was a thriving community of villages when Adam was created.
"He still contends that they're the only ones who are living right."
If by saying "living right" you mean.....holding to upright standards and Christian morality then have you tried explaining to him that those same principles can be employed in your life regardless of your association with the organization? Unforuntately the WT leaders do a good job of convincing their followers that Christ like behavior cannot be maintained OUTSIDE of their organization.
"Can you recommend any particular books apart from those Raymond Franz books?"
You are in a predicament. In most cases, the advice would be "don't discuss doctrine" with him. JWs (including him and me at one point) are under mind control....they just don't know it. They are trained to cut off critical thinking skills before their faith in the WT leaders gets damaged. You can show all the evidence in the world to a devout JW and they will find a reason to dismiss the evidence. INstead of pondering the evidence....they learn nothing from it and only focus on defending their position more defiantly. Whereas witnesses that routinely express doubts or complaints about the organization are a little more ready to hear and ponder facts. Even then....you need to be careful. You don't want to bombard them as it will be perceived as an attack on his faith. Your boyfriend admits problems within the organization so I'd say you may be able to reasonbly discuss some matters with him.
READ CAPTIVES OF A CONCEPT by Don Cameron. It explains in great detail why your boyfriend is reacting the way he is. He is captive to the concept that although it is imperfect......the witnesses are still God's only chosen organization. The book not only explains what captivates individual witnesses....but also gives ample proof as to why they are NOT God's organization. THen....use that information to ASK QUESTIONS. Don't hit him upside the head with all these facts you've learned. He'll put up his shield.
"What made Jesus select the witnesses as his organization in 1919"?
"What spiritual truths were being taught back in 1919?"
"If the brothers went into spiritual captivity around 1914 but emerged in 1918 cleansed and refreshed from Babylonish captivity.....then certainly their teachings would show such a cleansing. What changed from 1914 to 1919 (when Jesus selected them as his earthly organization because of the truthful teachings they were dispensing)?
The book will give you many more good examples. But make sure you ask in sincerity. Offer to study the older publications with him to find out these answers.
I don't know how old you are, but you need to sit down and really assess your life situation. Do you want children? Do you want a husband that you are on the same plane with or one that constantly looks back at the JWs and is not able to reason or look to the future?
I can tell you that I was in that organization for over thirty years. I clung stubbornly to everything and would not have listened to reason. I left in my fifties because of the way my daughter was treated-berated and humiliated by five men on a judicial committee, accused of things she didn't do..and treated overly harshly for some normal teen things she did do. I'd like my thirty years back...
Do you really want to spend maybe years of your life with these constant arguments, fearing that he may go back, shun you, or worse yet, forego having children because of your fears? Are you truly happy?
There was a sign in a school that I worked at...a circle on the middle said "Bang head here."
Don't you imagine that your head will feel wonderful when you quit?
Have you read 'Combatting Cult Mind Control' by Steve Hassan?
If not, it should be next on your list.
In the meantime, do not discuss any doctrine with him. This triggers his cult personality. This is counter-productive, as you desire a dialogue with his authentic personality.
hey ilikecheese - a quick question
Are you a Witness? I kinda get the feeling that you're not since you're here on this board, unless you're doing a slow fade or something but, if you're not a true Jehovah's Witness he shouldn't be dating someone who's not in "da troof", so if you're not part of the Borg why is your boyfriend dating someone out of the organization which is a pure no-no for them? If that is the case I guess he's not 100% a witness anyway!
