It is SO depressing when you just can't get through to someone

by ilikecheese 44 Replies latest jw friends

  • ziddina
    ziddina
    "As for being the only ones who are "living right"...according to his definition (which would most likely be synonymous with the Watchtower definition), this includes doing house-to-house preaching, not celebrating hoidays or birthdays, not cursing, not drinking heavily, not smoking, not committing "fornication"... " Morbidzbaby

    Shirley W, extractor, Ding, Morbidzbaby, Gary Neal, and others have all raised important points...

    First of all, if he's so enthralled with the Watchtower Corporation and feels that "they" are the only "moral" people, then what in the heck is he doing "living in sin" [sorry - just using Watchtower lingo...] with you???

    How is THAT, being "moral"???

    The more I think about it, the more uncomfortable I feel about the personality characteristics that your boyfriend is displaying - hypocrisy, self-deceit, self-delusion, "double" standards, and the like...

    As others have said, perhaps this one would be better off with a Jehovah's Witness girl - then they can practice their hypocrisy together...

    Zid

  • justmom
    justmom

    Hello and I am so sorry for your frustration but I have to agree with Shades of Grey.....

    We can't make people "see" if they don't want to or are not ready to. If it is Jah's will you will be directed to either tell him or he will ask. Example has always been the best key and the sharing of a few major things as you have done and then let it be! If his heart is receptive the questions will arise and his heart and spirit will start to see through it. It took me 30 years to finally click and when it did "WoW" the light went on!!! lol

    Continue to pray and be patient.

    Thoughts to you

    justmom

  • ilikecheese
    ilikecheese

    Thanks a bunch for all of the advice and support, everyone. But let me explain a few things about him, too, that might be more insightful as to his confusion:

    He wasn't born in to it. His mom got into it when he was a kid; they were previously Catholic. He was pretty young, so she started taking him and some of the family with her. It wasn't his whole family, and his dad has never gotten into it. But he's never protested her going or any of his kids going. As such, he's been attending for a long time, but he's never been baptized. So really he couldn't get disfellowshiped for hanging out with me, unless he decides to get baptized. And only his mom has been baptized in his family. Most of his extended family doesn't go. They're mostly Catholic. I'm not sure if he ever even will get baptized. I think he's afraid of what may happen if he ends up being disfellowshiped or leaving. He figures that as long as he's still unbaptized, it can't completely ruin his life. And as for dating a "worldly" girl, he hangs out with a lot of people who are "worldly." His three best friends, myself included are not JWs. Of course he's known the others much longer than me, and I know he only really paid attention in church when he became an adult. (We're in our 20s, and neither one of us is really in a hurry to get married right now.) Oh, and he really does follow the "rules" fairly well. Apart from his associations with those of us who don't go. And though we're not perfectly "innocent," we haven't actually had sex. And we've been together for a long time. Although the things that we have done are probably against their rules. I'm a dirty heathen who corrupted him! (Even though, as the typical guy, he initiated the third base stuff... =p)

    I have made the point that most Christians are well behaved if he's worried about a church, although his point is that we don't preach. I always say, if we don't preach, how do other people convert? How are there millions of new Christians every year? It doesn't really phase him. And of course I can point out that even non religious people usually have a similiar moral code, apart from sex. The idea that anyone who follows religion is going to be better behaved is fairly stupid anyway. The only reason many behave is simply out of fear or expectation. They want to act out; they just don't.

    So I don't know. Since he obviously harbors some doubts (won't get baptized, admits some things are wrong, hasn't completely committed himself to it yet), I feel like it should be easier to get him to see things. He's an otherwise very intelligent person. I just see him getting more and more mixed up in it, and I feel like the fact that I'm so strong in my faith makes him want to be the opposite and show that JWs have stronger faith than the average Christian or something. And it's SO hard when it seems like he's starting to be a bit more objective, and then it falls apart. It's got to be guilt or fear. When you're exposed to this stuff from a young age, it's got to make questioning and considering other things seem incredibly hard. Especially since he sees these people ALL the time. I don't go to church several times a week, just once. And I don't have time to join one of the Bible studies because I work so much. I usually just end up studying on my own, or sometimes we can study it together civily. And that's one of the times I "innocently" use scripture that I know they disagree with to have a talk. I remain calm and see him get that face.

    It's just frustrating. I know and have completely come to terms with the fact that we won't end up together if he stays. Don't worry about that. I'm in no danger of joining. I wouldn't want my future children to be hoodwinked by "religion." I'm about more of a personal relationship with God anyway. It's the only way that makes sense to me. Church is important, but it's hardly essential to being a good Christian. And I am honest when I say I'm not completely worried about whoever I end up with not being religious. In some ways, that's better. As long as he's apathetic enough to let me take our kids to church. Although being with a Christian guy would be fine, too. It's just things are so right with us except this stupid thing, and it's so hard for me to see something I view as petty get in the way.

    I'm going to ride it out, use some of your tips (which I IMMENSELY appreciate... thanks!), and see what happens. If there's no change of heart, I will end it. And don't worry. I'm not using that as some sort of ultimatum. I know he wouldn't want to end up with me if I wasn't a JW anyway (assuming he stays), so it's kind of an unspoken truth between us.

  • ziddina
    ziddina

    "Of course he's known the others much longer than me, and I know he only really paid attention in church when he became an adult. (We're in our 20s, and neither one of us is really in a hurry to get married right now.) Oh, and he really does follow the "rules" fairly well. Apart from his associations with those of us who don't go. And though we're not perfectly "innocent," we haven't actually had sex. ...."

    You - have - GOT - to - be - shittin' - me....

    Soooooooooo......

    Are the two of you going to continue fooling around until someone slips up and you "have" to get married?

    [face/palm slap]

    This relationship does NOT sound healthy in ANY way.... The fact that he's latched onto the Jehovah's Witness cult in SPITE of the fact that nearly all of his family are NOT Jehovah's Witnesses, is a very large indication that he's mentally enslaved to the cult, at this point in time...

    Good luck with your future....

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    At least you now know what is keeping him in. Now you can address his misnomer that "only JWs live right." The best way to get through to a person is by use of questions. Ask what he means by that, in order to know exactly in what ways he feels that is so. Then you can do some research and address those specific areas.

  • garyneal
    garyneal
    It's just things are so right with us except this stupid thing, and it's so hard for me to see something I view as petty get in the way.

    That was my wife and I, we were right for each other in every way except this way. Even to this day, when she opens up and allows herself to question, she and I view things similarly in that we're believers in God and even accept Christ but don't fully adhere to a single religion that is out there. Yet, she chooses to remain associated with the witnesses and I think it is only due to her family largely being in it.

    So I don't know. Since he obviously harbors some doubts (won't get baptized, admits some things are wrong, hasn't completely committed himself to it yet), I feel like it should be easier to get him to see things.

    My wife did not want to commit to baptism either. When she was a teen, she just could not get past the no holiday or birthday thing, so she was unbaptized when I met her. Yet, she still believed and she still kept studying even after we got married. Eventually, she went back in and I aided her by first encouraging her to study 'her' religion, and then later by discovering the truth about the 'truth' and trying to clue her in on it (BIG WHOPPING MISTAKE).

    I just see him getting more and more mixed up in it, and I feel like the fact that I'm so strong in my faith makes him want to be the opposite and show that JWs have stronger faith than the average Christian or something.

    I remember them days before my wife got baptized. If I did not go to church for a while, she would not go to the hall. If I started going more regular, she would start going to the hall more regular. Deep down inside, I never wanted to be a part of the Jehovah's Witnesses, I just was not honest with myself about it before.

    It's got to be guilt or fear.

    Yes, it's the programmed fear. You can go this far in your thinking, but no further. Oh, and by the way, Christians have these same programmed fears. Something else I did not want to honestly admit to myself before.

    Good luck to you.

  • ilikecheese
    ilikecheese

    Thanks for sharing your experience, gary; there seem to be a lot of parallels. And thanks for the tips jwfacts. And ziddina, yes, I know it's weird that we haven't done the deed. Don't worry. We're not late 20s or anything haha. We're both still young enough that it's not REALLY weird. Once I hit 27 or 28, if I haven't convinced some weirdo to marry me, I might just give in.

    It's not entirely for religious reasons for me. And I tend to not date a lot because I don't trust people all that well. For me, waiting til I'm married just makes a little more sense. I don't think people have to, though, or anything. He does, but it's just my viewpoint for myself. I think people weird out about premarital sex far too much. If you're in love and could handle the idea of it maybe resulting in a pregnancy, go for it! I just hate when people look at me waiting and think it's me judging people who don't. It's just what's right for me. I doubt every person who had sex with someone they love is condemned. People who do are way too judgmental. Playing God is not attractive.

    And I can admit my virginalness on the internet because I don't know any of you and you can only point and laugh at your computer screens. haha

  • ziddina
    ziddina

    Meh....

    I was a virgin when I married the JW guy... BIG mistake....

    There's a book I obtained, after I divorced the JW guy and left the cult. It's titled, "Nice Guys Sleep Alone". In my opinion, it is the BEST sex-ed book EVER!!

    It addresses the REALITY of casual sex, one-night stands, long-standing relationships, marriages, open marriages, and so on - in a modern, secular fashion...

    And what that book had to say about not having sex before marriage...

    Well, do YOU buy a car without ever driving it first???

  • ilikecheese
    ilikecheese

    Haha I totally get the car analogy. That's why I think people who don't do ANYTHING before marriage should maybe branch out a little. At least give third base a go before marriage. That way, at least you know you work in one aspect of that. And your wedding night would be beyond awkward and painful if you'd never done anything. And nothing would be remotely enjoyable.

    I know people who have waited until 30 to get married and were completely innocent on their wedding night. I can't imagine that'd be much fun. Honeymoons are meant to be sexy, not a chorus of "ows" and "where are you putting that?!"

  • Morbidzbaby
    Morbidzbaby

    I was a virgin when I married my JW ex. Like zid said...BIG mistake. And we HAD fooled around some beforehand. Not encouraging you to go against what you feel is right for you, but a lot of people have bad experiences with waiting. ESPECIALLY when it's a JW they are waiting for! I'm sure one of our other friends here can repost some Watchtower articles about sex WITHIN marriage and what specifially ISN'T allowed. JW's are the most prudish people when it comes to sex. Even my ex, who "fooled around" with me before marriage, was a clamped shut prude after marriage. The most adventurous thing we did was change positions .

    Seeing as your BF isn't baptized, but is still mentally enslaved to the illusion that the JWs are the only religion doing the right things...there are a few things you can use as examples.

    ~ On Thanksgiving and Christmas, JW's go out and knock on people's doors trying to convert them to their religion. Whereas Christian churches provide food and shelter to those less fortunate.

    ~ Churches engage in volunteer work, collections of coats, toys, clothing, and food for the poor. JW's...hand out magazines for a donation.

    ~ Some churches do pass a collection plate in case someone wants to donate... JW's give local needs talks about giving more, they pad their expenses for putting on assemblies and conventions, and they install credit card machines so the JW's can put a donation on credit, even if they can't afford it. Announcements are made at meetings and assemblies about how much everything costs and how much they got...and people are encouraged to give MORE to make up for the so-called "deficit".

    As for the preaching aspect...Is he aware of the different ministries being done by different Christian churches? Preaching doesn't necessarily mean they would be going house-to-house.

    TimKilgore has some great youtube videos...in particular, these 2 that discuss the Jehovah's Witnesses' belief that Jesus commanded them to go from house-to-house. This is a debate between Tim and a JW, and Tim proves his point very well.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fGSLLddS0w

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uphMMZHrCEs&feature=related

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